From: Platt Holden (pholden@sc.rr.com)
Date: Wed Jun 01 2005 - 13:24:28 BST
Dear Wim,
Great to hear from you.
> Thanks for your Pirsig quote:
> > "Value goes behind consciousness. It exists where there is no
> > intellectual consciousness, and analysis of it" (referring to
> > intellectual consciousness) "shows that it essentially involves the
> > subject-object relationship. In primitive consciousness subject and
> > object are virtually or confusedly present. In the pre-intellectual
> > consciousness of an infant value is present and there are no subjects and
> > objects " (parens added)
> I read this as follows:
> Intellectual consciousness NOW essentially involves the subject-object
> relationship. In primitive INTELLECTUAL consciousness subject and object
> are virtually or confusedly present.
Right. That's how I read it, too.
> You may remember that I suggested before that the intellectual level
> comprises at least two alternative types of (intellectual) consciousness:
> subject-subject thinking (primitive consciousness) and subject-object
> thinking (modern consciousness). To be added (we hope) of course: Quality
> consciousness... Another elements of the intellectual level may be
> spiritual and/or aesthetic consciousness.
I think spiritual/aesthetic consciousness requires a new level above the
intellectual level. But, if memory serves, we've discussed the need for a
higher level in the past with mixed results, some for, many against.
> Bo is of course right that subject-object thinking is the largest and most
> relevant part of the intellectual level, but I don't think that it is right
> to define the intellectual level as subject-object level (SOL).
I think Bo's point is that subject-object thinking dominates the
intellectual level and thus defines it.
I'll be looking forward to the results of the vote on the EU constitution
in the Netherlands today and would be very interested in your comments
about it. Looks like nationalism, often criticized as backward thinking
by the left, is a social value pattern that's hard to overcome.
Best,
Platt
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