From: ian glendinning (psybertron@gmail.com)
Date: Mon Jun 06 2005 - 15:35:55 BST
Platt said, quoting you know who ...
"The liberal project of the postwar era has bred a stultifying
conservatism, a fear of dynamic flexibility, a greater concern for
guarding what exists than creating what doesn't."
Ian says, that's a critcism of "stultefting conservatism", not
liberalism or socialism.
What you fail to do Platt is distinguish between the concept of
"liberalism" and the label of a "liberal project". And I know you know
that - which infuriates.
My appraisal ? Where do you dig up this drivel from Platt ? I only
read a couple of sentences - then my jaw dropped at the other
"breaking news" in the side-bar. Do you spend your life searching for
and ferreting away this partizan political propaganda as amunition -
in case of opportunties to launch em at people.
Drivel is like quality - you know it when you see it.
Hope in Europe ? Do me a favour.
The EU constitution is dead - that's democracy.
(Actually, a large part of it would have swept away blockages to
removing much of the conservative social policy stuff, tangled up in
many prior mis-guided / weel-intentioned treaties - but who needs
information - not even the electorate unfortunately - I repeat my link
earlier in the thread.)
Moving on, Next - See Sir Bob.
Ian
On 6/6/05, Platt Holden <pholden@sc.rr.com> wrote:
> Dear Wim,
>
> Another "analysis" of the European constitution vote by an American
> columnist that I'd appreciate your comments on. But first . . .
>
> Platt (previously)
> > > Actually, as
> > > I've pointed out, today's progressives look a lot like a bunch of new
> > > Victorians, trying to preserve static government welfare programs.
>
> Wim:
> > You are right 'progressive' may not be the right
> > label for those still promoting policies which their political ancestors
> > with that label where promoting 50 or 100 years ago. Also progressive
> > intentions do not guarantee progressive politics.
>
> Agree.
>
> > How yould you strive to
> > decrease (not necessarily eliminate) the differences in chances between
> > blacks and whites in the USA?
>
> I have no idea. Some blacks believe getting an education is anti-black.
>
> > > So today's educational system doesn't give everyone an equal chance.
> > > Right? If so, the solution is .... ??
>
> > Education combined with the rest of society, yes. If you agree, can we
> > search for solutions together? I certainly don't have THE answer.
>
> Me neither. I don't even know where to begin.
>
> > > So a business woman making a profit by supplying a service that others
> > > willing pay for in a free market is not serving the "common interest?"
>
> > She is. Where did you read in my words that she isn't??
>
> The words "common interest" set me off as they are often used by leftists
> to justify socialism. That's why I asked the question. Thanks for your
> clarification.
>
> Now, about another American view of the recent EU vote, this by David
> Brooks of the NY Times. Some excerpts:
>
> "Forgive me for making a blunt and obvious point, but events in Western
> Europe are slowly discrediting large swaths of American liberalism. Most
> of the policies advocated by American liberals have already been enacted
> in Europe: generous welfare measures, ample labor protections, highly
> progressive tax rates, single-payer health care systems, zoning
> restrictions to limit big retailers, and cradle-to-grave middle-class
> subsidies supporting everything from child care to pension security. And
> yet far from thriving, continental Europe has endured decades of relative
> decline."
>
> "Right now, Europeans seem to look to the future with more fear than hope.
> As Anatole Kaletsky noted in The Times of London, in continental Europe
> 'unemployment has been stuck between 8 and 11 percent since 1991 and
> growth has reached 3 percent only once in 14 years.' "
>
> "The Western European standard of living is about a third lower than the
> American standard of living, and it's sliding. European output per capita
> is less than that of 46 of the 50 American states and about on par with
> Arkansas. There is little progress of growth returning any time soon."
>
> Lots more in the article about Europe's aging population, the threat of
> Turkey, etc., too much to reproduce here. But, here's the summary that
> supports Pirsig's criticism of socialism in Lila as lacking in Dynamic
> Quality:
>
> "The liberal project of the postwar era has bred a stultifying
> conservatism, a fear of dynamic flexibility, a greater concern for
> guarding what exists than creating what doesn't."
>
> The complete article can be found at:
>
> http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=97176
>
> Looking forward to your appraisal.
>
> Best,
> Platt
>
>
>
>
>
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