From: Allen Barrows (allen_barrows@yahoo.co.uk)
Date: Wed Jun 15 2005 - 01:41:07 BST
2
Bo: Back to the "Oriental intellect".
Allen - As i said there is no different intellect other than sq patterns. You will not find Lila talking about any of this Mike.
Bo: Pirsig's idea (in the RT part in LILA ) is that the East long ago resolved the Dynamic/Static conflict.
Allen - I have to check with Anthony McWatts book at this point to see if he agrees with the book i read called Lila.
No. Nothing there. But i shall check again for good measure.
No. Nothing turns up Mike.
So what is Bo talking about then we may wish to ask. Well i say ask him but what can be said from an MOQ point of view is the following about Harmony.
Anthony McWatts book page 43
...emphasis on the ontological reality of harmony is given throughout Pirsig’s work (especially ZMM) and indicates why the MOQ is a form of moral realism (i.e. where Though Pirsig does not explicitly refer to the notions of yin and yang, the emphasis of these principles on balance and harmony forms an essential component of the MOQ. This emphasis on the ontological reality of harmony is given throughout Pirsig’s work (especially ZMM) and indicates why the MOQ is a form of moral realism (i.e. where moral truth is grounded in the nature of things) rather than a subjectivist or an emotivist theory of ethics. For Pirsig, therefore, sentences containing terms such as ‘good’ are expressing a genuine proposition.It is this harmony, this beauty, that is at the center of it all… It is the quest of this special classic beauty, the sense of harmony of the cosmos, which makes us choose the facts most fitting to contribute to this harmony. (Pirsig, 1974a, p.268)
This view is supported by Nagarjuna (c.300a, p.275) who relates ‘nothingness’ to the underlying harmony of the universe: Sunyata (non-dual understanding) as the principle of comprehension is the true principle of harmony. The harmony worked on the basis of sunyata is the highest kind, and of all the ways of establishing harmony, this is the best. This harmony excels all others.
Allen - It may be that when Bo talks about DQ/sq conflict - a concept by the way which is nonsense in MOQ language by the way - what he is really trying not to talk about is Harmony.
Harmony is a nemesis of Bos SOL deduction. Its so aweful that unpleasant and divisive (unharmonious) distinctions like 'The Oriental intellect' and severe definitions of intellect itself (SOL) have to be rudely insisted upon. Sometimes not rudely but misleadingly stated as if written about as fact by other people. Lying may be a more moral way of appreciating it.
Bo: If that sprang from an intellectual level (a S/O-conflict
who an Oriental Pirsig transcend) is dubious, all that talk about
Gods sounds social-levelish.
Allen - This is facinating because what Bo has done here is to dismiss the MOQ and a whole intellectual tradition as though doing so was as inconsequential as contemplating whether to have ice cream or custard for afters. It would matter if Bo was educated to the tradition and he argued eloquently for it but notice the lack of talk of Harmony here Mike.
ZMM not only has the word Zen in its title but the whole book is rife with examples and discussion about Harmony. What has Gods and social levelish to do with this maybe god only knows but there is nothing in ZMM or Lila about it.
Perhaps what the MOQ neatly explains and Bo does not is the emphasis upon Harmony which the West glimpses in its intelligent people like Einstein and Poincare but many others do not listen to. From Anthony McWatts book page 192:
However, whatever the term employed for fundamental reality, there does appear to be some agreement (as observed in Section 2.1.) between Buddhism and physicists in that it is essentially harmonic in nature. An important part of this understanding is Nagarjuna’s notion of sunyata (non-dual understanding) which he regards as relating to a fundamental harmony. Evidence that this just isn’t a romantic whim is provided by Pirsig in reference to the mathematician Poincaré and his colleague in the field of physics, Albert Einstein who both emphasised the harmonic nature of the universe. As I noted in Section 2.1., this recognition is held by other notable scientists such as Feynman, Polkinghorne and Dirac. Other scientists, not mentioned in this section, are the quantum physicist David Bohm who enjoyed a lengthy correspondence with the Indian philosopher, Krishnamurti and the atheist Richard Dawkins.
Bo: I am uneasy about this part, to me it looks like some earlier insight so precious to Pirsig that he included it in LILA, but in connection with the MOQ it seems a bit displaced.
Allen - I know some thing which certainly is very much displaced and it isnt an intellectual tradition from the East Bo.
Thank you,
Allen
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