From: Matt Kundert (pirsigaffliction@hotmail.com)
Date: Fri Jun 24 2005 - 12:42:27 BST
Bo, Paul, Mike,
Mike had said:
My interest is in showing that a complete, and --- _much_ simpler
categorisation of static patterns is provided by the --- following
definition of intellectual patterns. It's shockingly simple. --- An
intellectual pattern is a *belief*, or set of beliefs.
Paul shruggingly replied:
I think that sounds about right.
Bo exploded:
No! As Paul says above"...this is how a modern scientific ...etc" Ancient
people did not know the "belief vs knowledge" distinction because it is
intellect and had no skeptics among themselves that doubted the myth reality
(I think Scott says something affirmative to this point). To say that
intellect is a belief is - only to employ one half of its S/O pattern:
Intellect is the "subjective belief vs objective knowledge".
Matt:
Oh, fer Chris---
No Bo, I sincerely doubt there was _any_ "subjective belief" vs. "objective
knowledge" distinction built into Mike's description of the intellectual
level. You are reading that in there all on your own. When I co-opted
Mike's description (no less because its something I say all the time), I
certainly wasn't implying one. And I really, really doubt Paul would've
subscribed had it been there. And I don't see anything in Mike's writing to
suggest something invidious like it. We were (at least I was) simply
looking for a way of describing the interrelationship that marks an
intellectual pattern, an interrelationship between language, personhood, and
truth. Somebody else (say...you) can come along and put up a distinction
between subjective beliefs (beliefs that are _not_ easy to justify to
everybody else) and objective knowledge (beliefs that _are_ easy to justify
to everybody else), but it isn't required. It is an additional assumption
on that person's part.
By the way, I'm not sure I understand what you mean when you say that the
Greeks didn't have a distinction between (something like) subjective belief
and (something like) objective knowledge. What was the distinction between
opinio and episteme then? Was that something Socrates himself had created?
Or the Greek's in general? 'Cuz I hadn't heard that before.
Matt
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