From: hampday@earthlink.net
Date: Mon Jul 04 2005 - 07:19:08 BST
Mark --
msh says:
> I expect you to have done (or be willing to do) the
> research necessary to defend the opinions you post to this forum.
I have already done more research on Chomsky than is warranted for a
personal opinion. If you agree with nothing I've said but that Chomsky
hates America (spelled however he chooses), considers it in need of
"de-nazification" (his term),
and the greatest threat to peace, national self-determination, and
international cooperation -- that much alone would be enough to convince any
patriotic American of Chomsky's treacherous agenda.
> As for your charge of leftism and anarchy, I believe you are correct.
>
> Again, Ham, what do you find objectionable here? And why?
If your support for an anarchist movement is shared by your compatriots in
the UK, I dread to think of the future that awaits the Free World. Is
Capitalism to be the next victim of a latter-day Trotskyite revolution,
complete with activists carrying "Workers Unite" signs? Can any
"enlightened rational" person who knows anything about history and has
enjoyed the benefits of free enterprise really endorse, let alone admire,
the babble of this insurrectionist?
> I expect you to stop using this forum to publicize your political
> and/or religious dogma, only to retreat from engagement when
> challenged. ...
That charge is entirely unfounded, Mark. I am not using this forum to
publicize political or religious dogma, but you certainly are. What does
the trashing of America have to do with philosophical dialectics? How do
you construe Pirsig's Quality theory as a call for socio-political
revolution? I don't know what leftist teachings you're being subjected to
in the UK, but Chomsky's rhetoric is not my idea of enlightened thinking.
(And he's a product of my adopted city!)
> In other words, I want you to stop criticizing things
> you don't know about.
If you're implying that expressing opinions on polemics that contradict
one's philosophical viewpoint is not allowed in this forum, then please show
me where this is indicated in the charter rules. Otherwise, I take your
admonishment to be little more than an attempt to stifle free speech when it
doesn't support your particular position.
msh continues:
> Chomsky has nothing to propose as a replacement for God, for those
> who require one; this doesn't mean he believes in nothing and has
> nothing to propose. In your opinion, anyone who doesn't believe in
> God is a nihilist, even if that person believes that all life is
> intrinsically valuable, and that human beings, working and
> communicating together, rather than in competition, can solve their
> own problems. I'm sorry, but this just does not come close to
> matching the philosophical definition of nihilism, which is:
>
> "Nihilism is the belief that all values are baseless and that nothing
> can be known or communicated. It is often associated with extreme
> pessimism and a radical skepticism that condemns existence. A true
> nihilist would believe in nothing, have no loyalties, and no purpose
> other than, perhaps, an impulse to destroy. "
Excellent. I have used that definition also. I doubt that you will attempt
to deny the "extreme pessimism, radical skepticism, and impulse to destroy"
that demonstrate Chomsky's nihilism by this definition. But perhaps you can
show me where he has either stated a positive belief in something other than
"democratic socialism" or translated his notion of "positive rationalism"
into a valuistic praxis for our times. Can you offer any real evidence that
Chomsky "believes that all life is intrinsically valuable, and that human
beings can (collectively!) solve their own problems"?
You have voiced strong objection to my characterization of Chomsky as a
nihilist. Can you establish the case for some belief system, loyalty to
some tradition or personage (other than Lenin), and/or some purpose for
man's existence communicated in his vast literary output that would absolve
him of the Nihilism you have so accurately defined?
Ham
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archives:
Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Mon Jul 04 2005 - 07:21:20 BST