RE: MD Intentions and Morality

From: Matt Kundert (pirsigaffliction@hotmail.com)
Date: Mon Jul 04 2005 - 20:58:54 BST

  • Next message: Platt Holden: "Re: MD Our Immoral Supreme Court"

    Erin, Mark,

    Mark said:
    I remember, back in the day at UCLA, sitting in Ethics 101 and hearing about
    Kant and his focus on intentions. The questions I asked at the time were
    these: What does it mean to say an intention is immoral? Aren't we really
    saying that we would be immoral if we ACTED upon the intention? How is Kant
    or anyone else able to know another's intentions? If intentions other than
    our own are unknowable, what systemic ethical mileage is achieved by
    focusing on intentions at all?

    Matt:
    Yeah, there are problems with intentions. The Enlightenment folks tried
    treating intentions like mental objects. When the “mind” as a Cartesian
    Theatre started to break down, though, they had to go somewhere else, which
    was towards the intentions-as-potentials that you curved it towards.
    However, you’re next question about how we are supposed to know someone’s
    intentions swings back to Cartesian problems. I think the first step
    towards retaining some of the force of intentions in ethics, which Erin
    would like to still do, is to stop treating them epistemologically. I think
    we need to start treating morality in a more pedestrian manner. For
    instance, think of the charge of “conspiracy.” They didn’t commit the act,
    but they intended to. Perhaps, though, to be charged with conspiracy you
    still need some sort of actualized events to take place to get it to stick.
    But what about conspiracy to murder the president? All you need is to
    express the intent to get in a whole mess of trouble. Or the different
    legal versions of murder. Should what passes for manslaughter be the same
    as what passes for murder one? But, on the other hand, the idea of starting
    a riot. It is almost impossible to tag somebody with inciting a riot
    because of the problem of intention. Because of the way our legal system is
    set up, flowing from our legal philosophy, there is sharp dichotomy between
    words and actions. So, somebody giving a hate-inspired speech is
    horrendously difficult to pin responsibility on for even actions happening
    right afterwards because the person didn’t _do_ anything and can always
    argue that he didn’t intend it.

    Those are just a few things off the top of my head, but I hope they show how
    I think we should be thinking about them, getting away from the
    epistemological problem to more practical areas. We can never “know” the
    contents of other people’s “minds,” but I don’t think that should stop us
    from making a moral distinction between accidental murder and pre-meditated
    murder.

    The first time I tangled with morality and its conditions was like you,
    Mark. I enrolled in a Free Will class (though it wasn’t “some years ago”
    for me). The first thing I did was actually what Pirsig always tells us to
    do: figure out your answer to the problem. Well, turns out, just as I would
    predict (contra Pirsig), my “answer” to the problem was no answer at all.
    It was an attempt to side-step the whole problem itself. I bring it up
    because I think it both illustrates the pedestrian direction I want to go
    and it brings us around to thinking of intention as a _modifier_, not a
    necessary condition for moral action.

    The problem is simple: if we aren’t free, how can any of our actions carry
    moral weight? Isn’t it a condition of moral action that we do it out of our
    own free will? So, goes the line of the class, we have to solve the problem
    of free will to get our ethics in line. I dodged the whole damn thing.
    Through a series of (contestable and debateable) lines of inference, I said
    that the _first_ condition of moral approbation isn’t free will, but causal
    connection. First, you have to be connected to the action to be praised or
    damned for it. The paper, of course, was filled with pedestrian examples
    like the differences between dogs, insane people, people with guns to their
    heads, etc. It was obvious that I could give two shits about the
    metaphysical problem of free will, and my paper was designed to alleviate
    everyone else’s concern with it. We should instead be focusing on how our
    actual moral thinking works.

    Well, I’m still quite taken with the analysis. It wasn’t long, it wasn’t
    comprehensive, it wasn’t terribly conclusive, but I still do find it
    suggestive. First comes causal connection. That’s what Mark is arguing for
    and what Susan Neiman suggests we need to come back to terms with in our
    moral and legal thinking. I think what Erin and I would still like are the
    modifiers that occur afterwards and I think are still possible after
    Neiman’s astute analysis. It can’t simply be causal connection because it
    loses all the moral gradations we’d like to allow for. But what about the
    epistemological-like problem Mark still wants: how are we supposed to know
    if we’ve “witnessed a selfless act, or the act of an individual eager to get
    his name in the papers?” Well, I think we’d try and decide the answer to
    that question by all the usual pedestrian ways we do everyday: we look at
    their behavior. But, Mark presses, “more important, does it matter?” Well,
    would you rather be out in the trenches during a war with someone who’d only
    watch your back if there were newspaper reporters around or with someone who
    had a history of doing what was needed no matter who was looking? That
    question is stacked in my favor, but I want to emphasize this pedestrian way
    of looking at things. Notice, for instance, that it is entirely
    utilitarian, which is entirely anti-Kantian. After Nietzsche and Freud,
    we’ve learned how to redescribe any act as selfish. To act selflessly is
    selfish because acting selflessly is a desire that the selfless selfishly
    want to satisfy. But who would you rather have around you: people out for
    selfish glory or people out for the equally selfish duty towards others?

    The greatest problem of all, though, is that even good intentions don’t
    amount to a good predictor of moral behavior. The more general an
    intention, the less likely it is to be fulfilled. Be good to others. Oh
    yeah, I intend that all the time, but all the time fail it. I think what we
    need to be is more particular and attentive to contextual detail. I don’t
    think there are many general things to be said about morality, intention,
    free will, or any of the others. Sometimes what counts is the act of
    heroism, no matter where it came from. Sometimes what counts, I still
    think, is where it came from. Not all the time; it just depends. For
    instance, it depends on scale. The Holocaust was on such an unprecedented
    scale that intention seems to flee the scene in the face of such a high
    demand for any heroism, any heroism at all. The greater the scale of the
    problem, the less likely intention will matter as much as actual _acts_.
    But on smaller scales, intentions would seem to matter more. The smallest
    scale of all, of course, is the way we think of ourselves: what kind of
    human being should we be? Michel Foucault was probably the greatest
    excavator of systemic evil of our time, practically creating the category
    single-handedly, but what he called “ethics” was entirely personal: “the
    kind of relationship you ought to have with yourself, _rapport a soi_, which
    I call ethics, and which determines how the individual is supposed to
    constitute himself as a moral subject of his own action.” How should we
    comport ourselves towards others? Are there better or worse ways? I think
    there are and I think part of this complex of attitudes includes intentions.

    Matt

    _________________________________________________________________
    Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee®
    Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

    MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
    Mail Archives:
    Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
    Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
    MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net

    To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
    http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Mon Jul 04 2005 - 22:47:29 BST