From: skutvik@online.no
Date: Mon Jul 11 2005 - 10:16:57 BST
Hi Joe
5 July you wrote:
> [Joe] I am unclear how you are distinguishing intelligence from
> intellect?
Intellect and intelligence are differently defined in my dictionary.
Of course both have the inevitable (SOM) "mind" connotation,
but if one omits that intellect is the S/O ability, while intelligence
is the ability to learn from experience.
May I add that artificial intelligence is achieved long ago, but
SOM expects machines "to wake up to consciousness". That will
never happen however because the social level isn't reached
...and won't be ... and is intellect's (our cosciousness) base
> Evolution from the inorganic is a movement in DQ. IMO this
> is a clumsy way to try to describe evolution.
The MOQ description clumsy? I don't think the MOQ describes
any evolution (if you mean Darwin's) but claims to unite creation
and evolution.
> I prefer to describe
> 'happening', 'event', 'evolution' as a manifestation of three forces,
> +, -, and 0. The interesting force 0 is a force that can be neutral to
> yes or no and sustain them in a yes and no manifestation-evolution.
> Intelligence and intellect are manifestations of the same force when
> experienced in each manifestation. A law of three! The yes and no
> description of the neutral force is found in all the levels.
It's some formula of your own. An excellent one for all I know, but
.....
> I agree
> with Pirsig's rational argument for Quality as the groundstuff and how
> the Q- evolution has transcended the various static barriers.
Good!
> 'I am old' is my way of saying that the force, life, which sustains my
> evolution as an individual has a mechanically degenerating result.
> However, consciousness, which IMO is the neutral force of the
> intellectual level, through work puts me in an evolutionary active
> relationship with my activity not merely a degenerating mechanical
> relationship. Life is passive, mechanical, work is active, conscious.
This I understand, it's a generally valid observation.
> [Joe] I hope my previous statement has explained my opinion of how the
> MOQ intellect is not just a static level of degeneration, but also a
> dynamic level of evolution.
Intellect's STATIC quality must erased from some people's
books. Is it in yours?
> [Joe] IMO the intellectual, biological and social levels are in me. I
> agree that death would spell meaninglessness for the level, e.g.,
> Alzheimer's disease as the death of the dynamic intellectual level
> while the social and biological levels of the individual press on.
> Death in a social level of the individual produces an immoral
> automaton. Like you I associate the social level with emotions.
The social level as emotions! Great! Immoral however? From
intellect seen emotions are immoral or incomplete, but from the
MOQ all levels are moral, that's the whole point.
> The
> order of existence and will decisions seem to lie in the emotions.
"Will decisions" or wild? Well, emotions have to be mobilized to
have anything done.
> Death in the biological level of the individual is paralysis. I place
> organic, inorganic, physical (sex, motion, mystical) as combined in
> the biological level in an individual.
Your view of the levels is a bit peculiar as if there - for instance -
is an individual and a general biological level, but that is not the
MOQ view, the individual is part of ALL levels.
> [Joe] In my jargon my understanding of your jargon SOL would be that S
> and O are undefined and defined and L is neutral in a mechanical or
> dynamic relationship?
The SOL simply means that intellect is the S/O distinction.
> IMO my jargon would be DQ, SQ, with
> consciousness as neutral. Asleep, awake, and hypnotized are aspects of
> consciousness. Conscience, logic, and morality seem to fit the
> manifestation of intellect.
You remind me of Scott when he reels off his "credo" oblivious of
being at a Pirsig discussion site.
Bo
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