From: Matt poot (mattpoot@hotmail.com)
Date: Sun Jul 17 2005 - 05:28:40 BST
very good.'
thanks.
POOT
>From: Khoo Hock Aun <khoohockaun@gmail.com>
>Reply-To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>Subject: Re: MD Varieties of Buddhism, and the Social Level
>Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 22:40:07 +0800
>
>Hi Sam & everyone,
>
>I would like to intercede on this thread while Scott and Ant ponder
>their answers.
>
>The Eastern comsmological view is that we are all beings each in our
>respective phases of development, some having limited capacity to
>understand the reality of the universe as it were, others, far far
>developed through lifetimes of experience and karmic momentum.
>
>You dont get to remember each lifetime when you arrive at this plane
>and think that this is all there is. It is easy to fall for the idea
>that you must have been created anew and after this there is only an
>eternity, either in heaven or in hell.
>
>The Eastern cosmology is one of continuous progression, and
>interrelatedness among all lives, as we all impact on each other, by
>all our thoughts, deeds and actions.
>
>Buddhism is only a label for this understanding of how this universe
>is; and it may be called by any name, Quality, the Metaphysics of
>Quality if need be.
>
>To each of us so called individuals living out our lives as selves,
>Buddhism will be appreciated differently.
>
>When I was a samanera ( a novice monk - sort of a very temporary
>experience of the sangha - in theravada buddhism - this is encouraged
>for young individuals to find out more) a senior monk told me that
>intellect was not the route to enlightenment.
>
>In fact for enlightenment ( for which I will regard as full and final
>understanding of reality ), the individual should have come prepared
>into this lifetime, after countless ones developing and progressing on
>the 31 planes (different permutations of mind and matter) of
>existence. In fact, humans, having the right combination of mind and
>matter is the only plane where enlightenment and realisation as a
>buddha is possible.
>
>Three requirements are essential for enlightenment and they are
>wisdom, morality and devotion. Wisdom itself without morality and
>devotion is also not enough.
>
>My mother, for instance, is not wise enough yet to appreciate the
>insights of buddhism that can be yielded by the practice of
>meditation. But she can be very moral. Morality - right thought, right
>action etc - minimises the karmic baggage from lifetime to lifetime
>until one arrives at a level ready to develop wisdom.
>
>And for the moment, what propels her forward positively is her
>devotion to buddhism, even if she worships an idol that for all
>intents and purposes cannot in itself do anything for her.
>
>She will readily go to the Buddhist temple and request for blessings.
>And there are several of these blessings as chants as they were, which
>soothe the suffering of many whose karmic actions have been negative
>and reinforce the merits of those who have done good deeds.
>
>In this sense, compassion is a central tenet of buddhism, where we are
>all fellow travellers on the same motorcycle ride, some needing better
>directions than others, some needing more advice on motorcycle
>maintenance, some just need a lift !
>
>So Sam, if you have seen different varieties of buddhism, there are
>just as many varieties of this perception of reality and understanding
>of what Quality is. Just as there are as many religions and
>denominations within the religions. Just as there are many on this
>list with their own ideas of the MOQ.
>
>The underlying reality, unnamed, undescribed, uninterpreted, remains the
>same.
>
>Rgds
>Khoo Hock Aun
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>On 7/16/05, Sam Norton <elizaphanian@kohath.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > Hi people, especially Scott and Ant, to whom I address a specific
>question
> > at the end,
> >
> > Much to my chagrin, I couldn't make the conference with RMP, but I had
>the
> > small compensation of two weeks holiday in China and Mongolia to
>distract
> > me. Amongst many fascinating things were trips to several Buddhist
>temples,
> > in Beijing and Chengde, which were eye opening in many senses. There
>were
> > several ways in which the practice of religious observance in the
>temples
> > was social level. The most striking, for me, was when we were told by a
> > guide that it was common practice (as a 'minimum observance') to come to
>the
> > monastery once a year and ask a monk to pray on your behalf. Hardly the
> > 'intellectual level' that I thought was the essence of Buddhism!
> >
> > What really struck me was the way in which the impression of Buddhism
>that I
> > had formed (largely as a result of various conversations on this site)
>was
> > of something very austere and intellectual. That impression didn't long
> > survive a direct acquaintance with the actual practice. It seems to me
>now
> > that there is a distinct strain of idealisation involved in many of the
> > descriptions of Buddhism relied on here (and also a reverse strain of
> > denigration towards Christianity). It's as if Christianity were to be
> > assessed only by considering the Eckharts of the tradition, whilst all
>the
> > Lourdes type stuff were quietly ignored.
> >
> > The specific question to Ant and Scott: the temples/lamaseries I saw
>were
> > all part of Tibetan Buddhism; to what extent is the MoQ tied in only
>with
> > Zen buddhism (and therefore incompatible with the Tibetan variety)? It
>would
> > seem - to this beginning student - that Zen is much further removed from
> > these social level practices than the Tibetan sort, with their 30 foot
>high
> > wooden buddhas used as a focus for worship.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Sam
> > http://elizaphanian.blogspot.com/
> >
> >
> >
> >
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>
>
>
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