From: ian glendinning (psybertron@gmail.com)
Date: Fri Jul 22 2005 - 05:30:52 BST
Ant,
You said "Our world of Dynamic change - as taught by the Buddha - has
no purpose or use for a heaven, hell or reincarnation and believing
otherwise is ultimately misleading and retards human evolution.
Possibly it's the biggest gumption trap of all for a person before
they can reach enlightenment (as defined by
Khoo) i.e. a "full and final understanding of reality".
I say - fighting talk. I agree 100%.
Ian
On 7/22/05, Ant McWatt <antmcwatt@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
> Sam Norton stated July 16th 2005:
>
> >Much to my chagrin, I couldn't make the conference with RMP, but I had the
> >small compensation of two weeks holiday in China and Mongolia to distract
> >me.
>
> Sam,
>
> Your holiday in China and Mongolia certainly appeared to be a high quality
> distraction if not quite on the Dynamic level of a conference with Robert
> Pirsig. However, there is always next year's MOQ conference...
>
> >Amongst many fascinating things were trips to several Buddhist temples, in
> >Beijing and Chengde, which were eye opening in many senses. There were
> >several ways in which the practice of religious observance in the temples
> >was social level. The most striking, for me, was when we were told by a
> >guide that it was common practice (as a 'minimum observance') to come to
> >the monastery once a year and ask a monk to pray on your behalf. Hardly the
> >'intellectual level' that I thought was the essence of Buddhism!
>
> Isn't it actually the case that the guide quickly realised that as you were
> a barbarian from the West and, as such probably a Christian, you would feel
> "more at home" with some socially orientated practices? ;-)
>
> >What really struck me was the way in which the impression of Buddhism that
> >I had formed (largely as a result of various conversations on this site)
> >was of something very austere and intellectual.
>
> That is the form of Buddhism found in the Buddha's original teachings (if
> Walpola Rahula's text "What the Buddha Taught" is anything to go by) and the
> MOQ. However, it's absolutely no surprize to me that geographical areas
> which have had a (relatively) long Buddhist tradition would have developed
> social ceremonies for the less educated. There is also nothing wrong in
> this as long as these ceremonies don't retard a particular individual's
> understanding of Dynamic Quality or undermine the intellectual level. A
> senior monk would be well aware of this distinction as indicated in the book
> I strongly recommended to Matt Kundert a while back: John Blofeld's 1973
> "Taoist Mystery & Magic".
>
> In particular, look for the section where a monk finds Blofeld looking at
> the statues in a monastery hut depicting the punishments in hell given for
> various sins. The monk is careful to point out to Blofeld that the monks
> didn't themselves believe in these punishments or a hell though such
> depictions gave a moral guide to the less educated populace (who possibly
> couldn't read, for instance).
>
> Finally, a few comments concerning Khoo Hock Aun's fascinating reply to you:
>
> >My mother, for instance, is not wise enough yet to appreciate the
> >insights of Buddhism that can be yielded by the practice of
> >meditation. But she can be very moral. Morality - right thought, right
> >action etc - minimises the karmic baggage from lifetime to lifetime
> >until one arrives at a level ready to develop wisdom.
>
> I think this paragraph points to an important difference between the
> Buddha's original teaching /the MOQ and how traditional Buddhist philosophy
> has often developed over the last two thousand years or so. Reincarnation
> (as with Christianity's heaven and hell) is an invention by the human psyche
> concerning biological death designed to make a believer feel better.
> However, there is no scientific evidence or reason for why the universe
> needs more than one realm/dimension to continue life and creativity. Our
> world of Dynamic change - as taught by the Buddha - has no purpose or use
> for a heaven, hell or reincarnation and believing otherwise is ultimately
> misleading and retards human evolution. Possibly it's the biggest gumption
> trap of all for a person before they can reach enlightenment (as defined by
> Khoo) i.e. a "full and final
> understanding of reality".
>
> >Compassion is a central tenet of Buddhism, where we are
> >all fellow travellers on the same motorcycle ride, some needing better
> >directions than others, some needing more advice on motorcycle
> >maintenance, some just need a lift!
>
> This paragraph sounds absolutely right on target to me.
>
> >So Sam, if you have seen different varieties of Buddhism, there are
> >just as many varieties of this perception of reality and understanding
> >of what Quality is. Just as there are as many religions and
> >denominations within the religions. Just as there are many on this
> >list with their own ideas of the MOQ.
> >
> >The underlying reality, unnamed, undescribed, uninterpreted, remains the
> >same.
>
> As does this observation concerning Quality. I couldn't agree with this
> more!
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Anthony
>
>
>
> .
>
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