From: Mark Steven Heyman (markheyman@infoproconsulting.com)
Date: Fri Jul 22 2005 - 23:12:02 BST
Hi Ian, and all,
Just a couple of comments.
Arlo and I aren't talking about some world-wide conspiracy, the old
cabal of evil capitalists plotting away in smoke-filled rooms. When
the "conspiracy" charge is leveled against people working to expose
entrenched wealth and power, and the concomitant societal
inequalities, the purpose is to distract the public from serious
consideration of the issues. You know, "Ignore them, it's just them
looney old conspiracy theorists!" I'm surprised you've fallen for
this.
Most of what I'm doing in this thread is part of a larger analysis of
existing institutions. Am I a "conspiracy theorist" when I claim
that corporate executives are required by law to do nothing which
might interfere with profit-making? Is it a conspiracy theory to say
that GE attempts to maximize profits, and a common method of profit
maximization is to externalize costs?
This being said, business conspiracies DO exist. When competitors
agree to fix prices, split customers, or engage in contract-rigging,
a criminal conspiracy is being committed. Here's Howard Zinn:
When critics of U.S. policy point to crass motivations behind our
policy: like corporate profit, and political advantage, this is often
labelled "conspiracy theory." There are indeed some untenable,
improvable conspiracy theories floating around, but there are in fact
real "conspiracies" -- That is, groups of people who have certain
plans which they don't reveal to the public. For instance, the plans
for the control of the oil in the Middle East are not made public,
and instead they talk of overthrowing tyranny, instituting democracy,
bringing freedom, etc.
http://int.usamnesia.com/howardzinn.htm
msh continues:
You (Ian) say we should focus on the " fine mess we've gotten
ourselves into." What better way to do this than to analyze the
institutions that got us here? The whole point of this thread is to
find out what's wrong, and to suggest changes to make things better.
Don't you see that an analysis of existing cultural institutions,
unpacking the good and bad of them, is one way of nourishing what you
refer to as the "force" of memetic evolution?
As for what you and others have perceived as valueless bickering, I
can only suggest that you read my posts again. I believe I'm
offering plenty of substance. It's not my problem if that substance
is ignored, evaded, or disparraged. In fact, keeping this evasion
and disparragement in the record serves a valuable purpose: These
"methods of discussion" are the last resort of people who have run
out of ideas. Besides, I'm not writing to change the mind of people
who's minds aren't open to change. Which leads to my last paragraph,
below...
Finally, I think everyone needs to keep in mind that what we write
here is not limited to just the few active members of the list.
There are the many lurkers, after all. And, of course, these pages
are available to the world via the web. After a year of contributing
to MOQ MD, I've been contacted several times by activists and
researchers who had never heard of the MOQ or RMP, but who came
across my posts because they were scouring the web for keywords of
interest.
Best to all,
Mark Steven Heyman (msh)
-- InfoPro Consulting - The Professional Information Processors Custom Software Solutions for Windows, PDAs, and the Web Since 1983 Web Site: http://www.infoproconsulting.com On 21 Jul 2005 at 12:09, ian glendinning wrote: Suddenly this thread interests me ... Arlo .. "the invisible coercive force" Platt ... "I don't see much" MSH ... "not blind, just not looking" Guys, it's staring you in the face. Switch off from conspiracy theory (or not in Platt's case). Switch on to "that's the way it is" cock-up theory - the fine mess we've gotten ourselves into, if you like. What people "see" is cultural, and culture is whatever has evolved in people's minds. The "force" is memetic evolution. We need to learn how to nurture it in quality directions. Rant over, Ian May the force be with you :-) MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org Mail Archives: Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/ Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at: http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
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