Re: MD Collective consciousness

From: ian glendinning (psybertron@gmail.com)
Date: Tue Jul 19 2005 - 04:51:06 BST

  • Next message: Platt Holden: "Re: MD MOQ and The Moral Society"

    Not sure I see the connection with "specialisation" Erin,

    With the ubiquity of communication and culture, there is a dangerous
    trend to generality & uniformity (the east gets to mimic the west,
    etc.) and less diversity (is that less specialisation ?), but at the
    same time "freedom" opens up more possibility for originality, so it's
    a matter of whether people are prepared to simply consume or create
    ideas.

    The "easy" ideas tend to win, unfortunately, and why progress in ideas
    tends always to have arisen in a few intellectuals.

    Ian

    On 7/19/05, Erin <macavity11@yahoo.com> wrote:
    > Ian,
    >
    > In the idea you refer to does it talk about whether people are becoming more
    > specialized in modern times. Would more specialization be a moving away
    > from a collective "mind" idea or not necessarily?
    >
    > Erin
    >
    >
    > , language, etc, and widely shared
    > world-views arising through them. (Memes for short.)
    >
    > Ian
    > (PS when I say collective "mind" in the first clause, I am referring
    > to the idea of self-conscious thought emerging from something more
    > than a single biological brain. Sci-Fi for now, but not necessarily
    > for long.)
    >
    >
    >
    > On 7/17/05, Paul Turner wrote:
    > > Ham, Matt,
    > >
    > > >Somebody (Arlo?) quoted Pirsig:
    > > >"These fill the collective consciousness of all communicating mankind.
    > > >Every last bit of it."
    > > >
    > > >Ham asked:
    > > >I have two questions concerning this statement:
    > > >1) What does "collective consciousness" have to do with any of the
    > > >"analogues" previously quoted?
    > > >2) Why did Matt Kundert insist to me that he'd never seen the term and
    > had
    > > >no idea what it meant? (I guess Matt will have to answer that one.)
    > > >> >Matt:
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >Pirsig's not talking about some
    > > >big,
    > > >ephemeral brain or think-tank that all of us pour and pull our thoughts
    > > >into
    > > >and out of. Pirsig's talking about books. He's talking about receiving an
    > > >education. He's talking about learning the language of the historical
    > > >culture we were born into. He's talking about learning the analogues upon
    > > >analogues upon analogues which make up the language of our time. That's
    > > >the
    > > >collective consciousness that has grown and changed since the time of the
    > > >creation of language. One can call it "collective" because it wasn't
    > > >created by a single source. It was created by many sources over a long
    > > >time. In fact, we all participate in creating it (or, rather, changing
    > it)
    > > >simply by using it (which we have no other choice but to--well, at !
    > least to
    > > >remain "sane"). We can call it "collective" because our common educations
    > > >in the language of our time and place is why we all think in a way enough
    > > >like our fellows that we can understand each other.
    > >
    > > Paul: Exactly. Thanks for spelling this out, Matt. My shorter response to
    > > Ham at the time was:
    > >
    > > "Agreed, there is no collective mind. You are the one big on the existence
    > > of "mind," Ham, not I. There is, however, peer review. There is education,
    > > mathematics, language; without which there is no science."
    > >
    > > Regards
    > >
    > > Paul
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
    > > Mail Archives:
    > > Aug '98 - Oct '02 -
    > http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
    > > Nov '02 Onward -
    > http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
    > > MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
    > >
    > > To unsubscribe from moq_dis! cuss follow the instructions at:
    > > http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    > MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
    > Mail Archives:
    > Aug '98 - Oct '02 -
    > http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
    > Nov '02 Onward -
    > http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
    > MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
    >
    > To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
    > http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
    >
    >

    MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
    Mail Archives:
    Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
    Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
    MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net

    To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
    http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html

    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Sat Jul 23 2005 - 03:57:41 BST