From: Mark Steven Heyman (markheyman@infoproconsulting.com)
Date: Sat Jul 30 2005 - 05:41:59 BST
Hi Ian, and all,
On 29 Jul 2005 at 0:32, ian glendinning wrote:
My point however is the term "a moral society composed of
fully-informed individuals" is another idealised but never to exist
myth.
msh 7-29-05:
It's an ideal, a goal, something to aim for, like educating every
person or making poverty history. Calling it a myth is simply
attacking the ideal as unattainable and not worth striving for, and
reeks of a kind of defeatism I find repugnant. I noticed the same
kind of tunnel-vision cynicism in your comment about my so-called
"conspiracy theory" of capital dominance. (Don't know if you got my
response to that, as some posts seem to be greatly delayed these
days.)
Anyway, you don't seem like a cynic, and you're certainly not stupid,
so I'm a little surprised at your willingness to denigrate ideals
other than your own MOQ-based system of values. In the "population"
thread you say:
"Until a widely held common world view takes root in the population
about the values of that future, I don't believe any amount or
argument about which issue(s) we should address, how, and by what
mechanisms, has any significant value - or much chance of any agreed
decisions and implementable outcomes."
But what's your plan for of getting your Moq-based world view to take
root in a population that is forced to survive on a dollar a day?
Hook everybody up to computers, and get them reading LILA? It's easy
for us, in our privileged western societies, a tenth of the world's
population using up a third of its resources, to spend a lot of time
tapping at keyboards and reading philosophy. It should be clear that
a lot of work within the existing system, work to eliminate the harsh
brutalities under which most people live, will be necessary before
your memetic revolution will be able to take hold.
My society of fully-realized human beings may be just an ideal, but
at least I have indicated some concrete steps to move us forward: the
elimination or amelioration of the physical and psychological
impediments to becoming fully-realized. It could be that fully-
realized human beings may indeed adopt your MoQ-based world view; but
it's a cinch that the impoverished majority of the world, struggling
for simple survival, is gonna want bread first, then, maybe, roses.
This is why, in my opinion, so-called "old logic and old politics"
are essential for providing a foundation from which people who have
known little other than the struggle for survival will be able to
realize that something else is possible.
Finally, your contention that fully-realized human beings may be
badly informed, that is "filled with convenient and contagious
myths," only shows me that you don't yet understand my concept of a
fully-realized human being. For that, I am sorry.
Mark Steven Heyman (msh)
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