From: Arlo J. Bensinger (ajb102@psu.edu)
Date: Fri Aug 05 2005 - 17:13:57 BST
Hi Jon,
[Jon said]
That's an interesting term: static wealth piles. Of course, lives are more
important, but the social level that determines the value of these piles, is
also the social level that determines the value of life.
[Arlo]
Well, I think we are running into problems with the word "life". Life is
biological, social and intellectual. Yes? What the MOQ says (to me), is that
the individual is a collection of ideas, which are intellectual patterns, and
is thus morally superior to social patterns.
Wealth, on the other hand, is a representation of social-level value. Einstein
was not a millionaire. Nor was Sidis. The "economy" is a measure of material
value, not intellectual value. When one earns money, it is because one is doing
something socially valuable, not (necessarily) intellectually valuable. (And,
I'd argue, that when one is earning money and doing something intellectually
valuable, it is because that intellectual activity offers immediate marketplace
rewards.) Pirsig's royalties off ZMM and Lila have nothing to do with their
inherent intellectual value, they have to do with their social value. Consider
that Danielle Steele's works have made her far richer (monetarily) than
Pirsig's.
[Jon]
I think there's an inherent defect in every level, and one of the defects in the
social level is its inability to appreciate the value of the individual's mind.
While the social level is quite good at dealing with the individual's
biological level, it isn't so good at dealing with the individual's
intellectual level. How could it? It's a lower form of evolution.
[Arlo]
Agree.
[Jon]
Are we saying it's okay for a lower form of evolution to decide the value of
the mind?
[Arlo]
No. My entire point is that the value of the mind is not determined by the
social-level. This is why Pirsig stated that it is more moral for an idea to
kill a society than for society to kill an idea.
[Jon]
An individuals static wealth piles isn't just subject to what society says it
needs, the wealth piles are also subject to the individuals intellectual level.
[Arlo]
I disagree (as I've said above). This isn't to say that Daniel Steele's
authoring required no intellectual activity on her part. But that the wealth
generated by activity is a measure of social value, not intellectual value.
Einstein's activities are highly intellectual valuable, but were not socially
valuable (at least not until we wanted to build a really big bomb).
But be cautious here, Jon. You are coming very close to saying that wealth is an
indicator of intellectual value. Hence, poor people are intellectually
worthless. One person on this list feels this way, do you as well?
[Jon]
As long as it's legal for individuals to have private saving accounts at all,
they should have final say over how & when their money is utilized. (of
course, there are some who think savings accounts are inherently immoral, but
that's not a view I hold).
[Arlo]
Only fear-based propaganda tells you that publically-supported health care
favors taking all your wealth. We already have many publically-supported
initiatives (state parks, education, job retraining, legal representation, etc)
that are reflective of the idea that there are valid moral reasons for some of
your (of all of our) socially-generated wealth to be used to strengthen the
social infrastructure and to reflect intellectual values (publically supported
libraries that serve to strengthen a societies participation in intellectual
activities, or EMT services that place life-saving services at a higher moral
level than my personal bank account).
But tell me, if you disagree (let's take EMT services), do you think these
should be provided only to those with wealth sufficient to pay the capital
cost? Should an individual's wealth determine the value of his life?
Arlo
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