MD Where is the Zen?

From: david buchanan (dmbuchanan@hotmail.com)
Date: Sat Aug 06 2005 - 00:45:07 BST

  • Next message: ian glendinning: "Re: MD Truth, conservatism & religion"

    Hey Marsha and all MOQers:

    Marsh said:
    I assume DMB's talk at the Conference addressed the mythos. I'm very much
    looking forward to reading his paper.

    dmb says:
    You can see all of the conference papers now at www.robertpirsig.org

    I guess you could say my paper is about what was lost, what's missing from
    the mythos, and what might be done to unearth it again. I talk about it in
    terms of movie heros and rock stars, but its really about how each of us has
    to take the hero's journey, which is a mythological depiction of a
    transformational experience, or even a metaphorical rendering of the
    mystical experience. But maybe I should wait for people to read it. I don't
    want to ruin the story, but I have to tell you that Orpheus doesn't get the
    girl and he dies in the end. Ha!

    Marsha wrote:
    I read the perspective of the cold war warrior, the theologian, the
    activist, the dialectician, the academic, the scientist, the philosopher,
    etc. etc. I read of the conflict between the levels and identifying with a
    dominant level. But where is the Dynamic Quality that Zen offers? Where
    is the turning away from, the letting go of, attachment.

    dmb says:
    I think I know what you mean. The gap in factual information about actual
    Zen practices on this site is at least partly due to the fact that we have
    too many philosophers and too few Buddhists. Pirsig's books don't really
    cover that area, but I have a hunch that such things could be added without
    generating any big philosophical contradictions or problems. But I also
    think a forum like this has limitations. Words are all we have here. Maybe
    Zen is one of those things that's easier done than said. Not that its easy
    to do. I suspect you're asking about a living experience and the kinds of
    techniques that might prepare or open a person to such experiences. But at
    the conference Pirsig expressed the view that enlightenment is different for
    every person, so I don't imagine he's working on a how-to book for spiritual
    seekers. Its the lone wolf thing, the outsider thing. Its the view that
    truely meaning experiences have to grow out of the patterns of your own
    life. I suppose lots of readers like that aspect as much as I do and are OK
    with the notion that, when it comes to certain things, at a certain place in
    the journey, you're on your own. On the other hand, if Pirsig had a guru or
    a Buddhist monastary to help, maybe his journey would have been a lot less
    painful. Maybe we Westerners have to rely on accidental enlightenment and
    the force fed vision quests because the social and intellectual patterns of
    our culture don't support the quest for enlightenment very well...

    Marsha continued:
    Where are the instructions, methods and suggestions to reach the place for
    experiencing that everything is connected to everything and a broader
    perspective? And how can this be cultivated in ourselves and offered to
    all in the Social and Intellectual levels?

    dmb says:
    Damn good question.

    _________________________________________________________________
    FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now!
    http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/

    MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
    Mail Archives:
    Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
    Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
    MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net

    To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
    http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Sat Aug 06 2005 - 01:28:45 BST