From: ian glendinning (psybertron@gmail.com)
Date: Sat Aug 06 2005 - 02:56:01 BST
David,
You saidToo many philosophers and too few Buddhists.
I kind agree, but I was going to sayToo many would-be politicians and not enough philosphers either.
But then I remembered a line from David Chalmers "The Conscious Mind""The trouble with most philosophers is they think too much."
Ant hasn't actually posted the link yet, so I guess he's stilltinkering with the site.The papers themselves are linked from the new Intro page.http://robertpirsig.org/Intro.htm
BTW I've read your paper about 6 times now. I have to pinch myselfthat the Masks of God reference in Lila passed me by until I heardyour paper. Next on my reading list. I still haven't seen the CocteauOrphic Trilogy yet - the DVD's are waiting for me back at my UK home.Just two weeks to go.
Ian
On 8/6/05, david buchanan <dmbuchanan@hotmail.com> wrote:> Hey Marsha and all MOQers:> > Marsh said:> I assume DMB's talk at the Conference addressed the mythos. I'm very much> looking forward to reading his paper.> > dmb says:> You can see all of the conference papers now at www.robertpirsig.org> > I guess you could say my paper is about what was lost, what's missing from> the mythos, and what might be done to unearth it again. I talk about it in> terms of movie heros and rock stars, but its really about how each of us has> to take the hero's journey, which is a mythological depiction of a> transformational experience, or even a metaphorical rendering of the> mystical experience. But maybe I should wait for people to read it. I don't> want to ruin the story, but I have to tell you that Orpheus doesn't get the> girl and he dies in the end. Ha!> > Marsha wrote:> I read the perspective of the cold war warrior, the theologian, the> activist, the dialectician, the academic, the scientist, the philosopher,> etc.
etc. I read of the conflict between the levels and identifying with a> dominant level. But where is the Dynamic Quality that Zen offers? Where> is the turning away from, the letting go of, attachment.> > dmb says:> I think I know what you mean. The gap in factual information about actual> Zen practices on this site is at least partly due to the fact that we have> too many philosophers and too few Buddhists. Pirsig's books don't really> cover that area, but I have a hunch that such things could be added without> generating any big philosophical contradictions or problems. But I also> think a forum like this has limitations. Words are all we have here. Maybe> Zen is one of those things that's easier done than said. Not that its easy> to do. I suspect you're asking about a living experience and the kinds of> techniques that might prepare or open a person to such experiences. But at> the conference Pirsig expressed the view that enlightenment is different for> every person, so I don't imagine he's wor!
king on
a how-to book for spiritual> seekers. Its the lone wolf thing, the outsider thing. Its the view that> truely meaning experiences have to grow out of the patterns of your own> life. I suppose lots of readers like that aspect as much as I do and are OK> with the notion that, when it comes to certain things, at a certain place in> the journey, you're on your own. On the other hand, if Pirsig had a guru or> a Buddhist monastary to help, maybe his journey would have been a lot less> painful. Maybe we Westerners have to rely on accidental enlightenment and> the force fed vision quests because the social and intellectual patterns of> our culture don't support the quest for enlightenment very well...> > Marsha continued:> Where are the instructions, methods and suggestions to reach the place for> experiencing that everything is connected to everything and a broader> perspective? And how can this be cultivated in ourselves and offered to> all in the Social and Intellectual levels?> > dmb says:> Damn good question.>
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