Re: MD URT vs MOQ

From: David M (davidint@blueyonder.co.uk)
Date: Sat Aug 06 2005 - 20:53:53 BST

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    Hi Ham

    Glad it was interesting. Geoffrey Read has a website too
    at:

    http://www.geoffreyread.com/

    regards
    David M

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: <hampday@earthlink.net>
    To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2005 8:39 AM
    Subject: Re: MD URT vs MOQ

    >
    > Hi David --
    >
    > Thanks for pointing out this website, which may offer a suitable vehicle
    > to
    > submit an article in behalf of my own philosophy.
    >
    > http://www.onlineoriginals.com/showitem.asp?itemID=287&articleID=35
    >>
    >> This may interest other MOQers as it shows how an ontology of
    >> equi-primordial being and becoming or SQ & DQ can offer a new
    >> conception of god. Macann also discusses relationship of his ideas to
    >> the East and people like Nishida. I think Macann in this essay sets out
    >> a good reason why the ONE should not be thought of as conscious.
    >> Macannlike Pirsig see the need to describe being/SQ in levels so as
    >> to be able to tell a genetic story of the dynamic evolution of being/SQ.
    >
    > Macann addresses the right questions in this very literate article, but is
    > careful to avoid answering any of them in an unequivocal manner. I
    > suppose
    > "lack of conviction" is viewed as a desirable characteristic of the
    > philosophical scholar. Also, I'm not particularly comfortable with
    > Heidegger's 'becoming of being' concepts which seem to concern Macann
    > almost
    > as much as societal evolution obsesses Pirsig.
    >
    > Although I'm not sufficiently schooled in Eastern mysticism to comment on
    > Nishida, I agree that consciousness, as in the awareness of an objective
    > other, should not -- indeed could not logically -- be regarded as an
    > attribute of the One. However, while it is my opinion that no specific
    > (i.e., finite) attribute is assignable to the primary source, its link to
    > conscious awareness does imply "sentience in its absolute state", whatever
    > that might represent metaphysically. Without it, we may as well forego
    > the
    > idea of a primary source altogether since it adds nothing to the meaning
    > of
    > the life-experience.
    >
    > For that reason, I prefer Geoffrey Read's "The Fatal Trap" and "A New
    > Ontology", both of which are published on this same site. Let me quote
    > from
    > the latter as an example of what I mean.
    >
    > "[Hegel] rightly saw that the source must be defined in terms of something
    > common to all experience, something of which every experience is a
    > particular instance. But his definition is unsatisfactory because he
    > failed
    > to define 'being', leaving it as an empty abstraction. With our precise
    > theory of the structure of entities we are in a position to improve upon
    > this. Two components of the basic problem are obvious enough. We cannot
    > define the One in terms of anything ontologically prior, since, by the
    > very
    > nature of the case, there is nothing ontologically prior. Also, for our
    > definition to be meaningful, we must define the One in experiential terms.
    > But since all experience necessarily derives from the One, it might seem
    > that any such definition must involve circularity. However, though all
    > experiences derive from the One, in a sense they still are the One, since
    > they are no more than dynamic forms, or patterned processes, of the One
    > and
    > its Negation -- which latter, as we have seen, is purely privative, owing
    > its existence solely to the One. So that, in effect, the One is the sole
    > substance of the Universe."
    >
    > I think this ontology is compatible with the experiential basis of
    > Pirsig's
    > MoQ, and it perfectly expresses my theory of Essence as the Not-other. It
    > would also fit Kaufman's URT thesis, if he could see his way to including
    > a
    > non-existential source.
    >
    > I shall have to study these theories more thoroughly before judging their
    > significance, but you have provided a fine reference for this area of
    > personal interest. I look forward to discussing the finer points of these
    > concepts with you in the near future, David.
    >
    > Again, many thanks for putting the URT into a broader philosophical
    > perspective, and for your willingness to consider the notion of a primary
    > source.
    >
    > Essentially yours,
    > Ham
    >
    >
    >
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