From: ian glendinning (psybertron@gmail.com)
Date: Sun Aug 07 2005 - 06:52:46 BST
MSH / Scott
Just posted this on another thread, RMP said in ZMM ....
'My personal feeling is that this is how any further improvement of
the world will be done: by individuals making Quality decisions and
that's all. God, I don't want to have any more enthusiasm for big
programs full of social planning for big masses of people that leave
individual Quality out. These can be left alone for a while. There's a
place for them but they've got to be built on a foundation of Quality
within the individuals involved"
I support "leaving the big issues alone for a while"
And like Scott I do not consider that passive acceptance, just an
alternative approach (one more likely to achieve progress than
attracting bulls to red-rags).
Ian
On 8/7/05, Scott Roberts <jse885@cox.net> wrote:
> Mark SH,
>
> You don't seem to be realizing that I am not disputing your political
> arguments. I don't agree with all of them, but I'm not inclined to engage in
> argument over them. So let's cut to the personal stuff.
>
> msh:
> Your point about a good standard of living is interesting. The
> problem is that this good standard comes at the expense of most of
> the world's population. The fact that the people enjoying the good
> standard are unaware of this says a lot about the domination of
> information in this country, and a lot about the people who are not
> so ill-informed but who nevertheless remain silent.
>
> And, BTW, how does this infatuation with consumerism square with your
> ideas about driving away one's ego? Just curious.
>
> Scott:
> I think excessive consumerism is bad. But the excessive consumers are going
> to have to realize that for themselves.
>
> scott prev:
> So if you really want to defeat all those imperialists, encourage
> people to be true Christians and Buddhists, simple-living
> enthusiasts, and so forth.
>
> msh 08-06-05:
> That might help, as long as they act rather than self-immolate or sit
> around waiting for Judgement Day. Why not just encourage them to get
> in touch with their own sense of humanity?
>
> Scott:
> That's what Christianity and Buddhism (and other religions) teach. How well
> it is received is another matter.
>
> scott prev:
> Now if you object that by that reasoning, no one could act at all, I
> agree. That is why I am not political. I do not know how Giants
> should be run. I'd rather encourage people to work on their own
> intellect so that gradually the Giant will wither away.
>
> msh 08-06-05:
> And, as I said before, that's fine for you, enjoying your good
> standard of living while you wait. In the meantime, millions are
> suffering as a direct result of policies instituted by our
> government, in our name and, if we are silent, with our tacit
> approval.
>
> Scott:
> Silence is silence. It is not tacit approval. To take it as tacit approval
> is to say you insist on working out the intellectual/social conflict your
> way. I am playing a different game, in part because I see your game as
> conceding too much to the social from the start.
>
> msh 08-06-05:
> Well, I don't see how criticizing people who act, saying they are
> merely ego-bound and therefore making things worse (especially when
> there is plenty of evidence to indicate positive results), can be
> interpreted as anything other than ego-bound criticism. Sorry.
>
> Scott:
> I haven't said that you are making things worse, nor am I criticizing
> activists per se. My original point in this thread was to object to your
> accusing me and others who do not do what you do of "doing nothing". You
> seem to be wedded to that old New Left slogan, "If you're not part of the
> solution, you're part of the problem", where, of course, you are defining
> what counts as the problem and the solution. I see what I am doing as a
> different kind of solution to social ills. We diagnose the problem
> differently, and hence have different solutions.
>
> - Scott
>
>
>
> MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
> Mail Archives:
> Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
> Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
> MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
>
> To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
> http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
>
>
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archives:
Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Sun Aug 07 2005 - 07:22:14 BST