Re: MD MOQ: Involved or on the Sideline?

From: Platt Holden (pholden@sc.rr.com)
Date: Sun Aug 14 2005 - 19:24:48 BST

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    Hi Horse,

    P previously
    > > How do you know what's good for your neighbor? I hope you don't believe
    > > that everything you think is good is necessarily good for everybody.

    H
    > Well, one possibility is to ask him I suppose.
    > But your statement seems to imply that any action I take should be mediated
    > by social value rather than intellectual value (or DQ). By acting locally
    > one can persuade and build concensus and not just impose it on others.

    I'm all for persuasion and consensus building. I think that's called
    democracy.
     
    > Within the UK both the NHS and the minimum wage have been (and continue to
    > be) parts of the Blair/Labour election manifesto. I think both are a good
    > thing and by inference so do many others (the majority who voted). I'm not
    > saying they're perfect but they are the preference of the majority of those
    > who voted. Most people over here are in favour of the NHS in general
    > (despite it's flaws) and support a national minimum wage. Where's the
    > problem. If your lot don't want it and vote against it that's your
    > prerogative.

    No problem. I just offered my opinion. If put to a vote here I'd vote
    against the minimum wage and NHS.

    P previously
    > > What a way to live, thinking you know what's best for everybody else. And
    > > "dynamic" doesn't ipso facto mean "good." Terrorists are dynamic.

    H
    > I thought you said they were germs and should be exterminated. Are you now
    > saying that what's dynamic should be exterminated?

    You seem to assume all change is for the better. But, as Pirsig points
    out, change can be degenerate.

    > Where have I said or
    > inferred or implied that what I think is best for everyone? My point above
    > was that the 'law' of unintended consequences outlined by the article is an
    > excuse for not upsetting the status quo. You didn't answer this point but
    > accused me, incorrectly, of thinking I know whats good for others.
     
    Then I apologize. As for the law of unintended consequences, it simply
    reminds us that we're all fallible -- something activists seem oblivious
    of.

    > It's my belief that this is why the Inquisition did what they did. I
    > haven't said that this is the only possible interpretation only that your
    > interpretation is naïve. I haven't said that your interpretation is not
    > allowed - just naïve. The mindset of the left can spot a naïve
    > interpretation when it sees one.

    Well I think your interpretation is naive. So there.

    > As to multiculturalism. the UK population,
    > for the most part, is quite happy with it - it appears to be Blair that is
    > out of touch with the way the electorate thinks. Perhaps we're not as
    > parochial as some other nations or perhaps it's the sense of fairness that
    > Pirsig mentioned that's the cause of this.

    From what I read in leftist papers like the NY Times, multiculturism is
    being rethought throughout Europe in the wake of the large unassimilated
    Muslim populations..

    > Talking of twisting, where have I said that what I think should be imposed
    > on others?

    Don't you support large government social programs that impose on others?
    If you don't, I take it back.

    > My point was that to run someone's ideas down (such as Rigel did
    > with Pirsig - I notice you didn't answer that point either) by labelling
    > them as 'do-gooders', in a pejorative sense, is an ad hominem attack.
    > Elsewhere you've made the point that this is evil. Are you now saying that
    > this is OK?
     
    Well, there's plenty of ad hominem attacks, insults and running downs of
    someone's ideas going on in the MD. So I think it's a bit unfair to single
    me out. But I can take it. :-)

    Best regards,
    Platt

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