Re: MD how conservative values support DQ and the evolution of SQ?

From: Mark Steven Heyman (markheyman@infoproconsulting.com)
Date: Sat Aug 20 2005 - 02:21:54 BST

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    Hi Sam,

    On 19 Aug 2005 at 13:27, Sam Norton wrote:

    Hi Mark,

    Can you come up with an understanding of 'conservatism' that isn't
    pejorative in some way, ie which doesn't automatically equate 'conservative'
    with 'immoral'?

    msh:
    Not as long as a conservative's first reaction is to resist change,
    rather than analyze and honestly discuss it. If that shoe doesn't
    fit you, then all you'll get is a few blisters. : -)

    David M started this thread with a very specific question for the
    self-proclaimed "conservatives" on this list. You responded using
    your understanding of the word, and I disagreed with you, within the
    very narrow context of David's original question.

    I've said a dozen times that, within broader discussions of politics,
    philosophy, history, the terms "conservative" and "liberal" have been
    so badly abused as to be devoid of meaning and, in fact, serve only
    to limit, not expand, the honest investigation of ideas.

    sam:
    Equating conservatism with anti-DQ forms of SQ seems no more
    productive than equating left-wing thought with degenerate DQ.

    msh:
    Again, I was responding within the context of this thread, wherein I
    still say that, generally speaking, a conservative's resistance to
    change is less MOQ-healthy than a progressive's willingness to try
    things. But, even here, let's drop the words: when faced with a low
    quality situation (slavery, institutionalized prejudice, sweatshops)
    it's better to change than not to change. Intelligence can anticipate
    and prepare for possible negative effects but, if by some chance some
    unanticipated negative occurs, it can be handled in turn.

    sam:
    So either we come up with an understanding of political terms which
    gives them both (or however many) an acceptable place in political
    discourse, or else we abandon the political discussions on the MoQ
    and just go to Rush Limbaugh or ZNet for confirmation of our
    perspectives.

    msh:
    I say let's abandon the terms, at least in threads where they are not
    part of the subject line. We don't need these terms to discuss
    politics or anything else on this forum. What we need to do is read
    Limbaugh and Znet, and everything in between, compare what we read
    with our own world experience, perform our own analysis, applying MOQ
    principles where appropriate, and, through honest discussion, share
    in the experience and analyses of others. I think this is our only
    chance, short of unverifiable mystical revelation, of coming up with
    a respectable approximation of reality.

    sam:
    On top of which, how does 'intelligence' show anything, especially where
    politics is concerned?

    msh:
    See above. Politics is simply the social engine in the relationship
    between power and history. Intelligence can be applied to the study
    of politics, as well as to any other third level phenomenon. In
    fact, my understanding of the MOQ is that we are morally obligated to
    do so.

    Seems to me.

    Best,
    Mark Steven Heyman (msh)
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