Re: MD How do conservative values support DQ and the evolution of SQ?

From: David M (davidint@blueyonder.co.uk)
Date: Sun Aug 21 2005 - 20:47:21 BST

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    Hi Platt

    Ever going to take up the challenge of answering the thread question
    positively
    rather than attacking others?

    DM

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Platt Holden" <pholden@sc.rr.com>
    To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>; <owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk>
    Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 9:46 PM
    Subject: Re: MD How do conservative values support DQ and the evolution of
    SQ?

    > Ant McWatt comments: (about conservative politics)

    > For the record, the MOQ's political position is an attempt to take both
    > the
    > better strands of the left and the right i.e. combine the left's social
    > compassion & intellectual guidance with the right's (supposed) promotion
    > of
    > genuine free economic markets.

    I can find nothing in the MOQ to suggest that "intellectual guidance" is
    solely possessed by leftists (except that their objective intellect is
    misguided by being amoral), nor do I find "compassion" mentioned much less
    celebrated.

    > It is a matter of using the latter as far
    > as possible in developing social values and only curbing them when they
    > start undermining intellectual and artistic values. (The latter point is
    > what Platt keeps overlooking when talking about politics so knocking him
    > out of the MOQ and back into SOM's sweatshops, polluted lakes and third
    > rate schools together with Mr Priday).*

    Again, no supporting evidence in the MOQ that I can find. Nor do I find
    anything there about sweatshops or polluted lakes being SOM any more than
    gulags and concentration camps are SOM. But third rate schools are the
    direct result of the intellectual level failures.

    > So to answer David M's question:
    >
    > "How do conservative values support DQ & the evolution of SQ?????"
    >
    > Within intellectually imposed limits to ensure that they don't undermine
    > intellectual and artistic values, conservative values support DQ on a
    > social level by ensuring that economies are as vibrant as possible. A
    > Dynamic economy in turn helps support intellectual and artistic
    > development
    > via well financed universities etc.

    Oh my God -- the arrogance.* Intellectual and artistic values the
    province of universities, etc? That's the joke of the century. The junk
    coming out of universities today from the liberal arts crowd, like
    deconstruction and and political correctness, is Orwellian. Nor do I know
    of any great artists who were professors. And I wonder what the "etc"
    refers to. Notice no acknowledgment of the poor stupid slobs who work to
    provide the money to "finance" universities.

    > so, when used wisely, conservative
    > values promote the evolution of both social and intellectual SQ. It's
    > only
    > when they are no intellectually imposed limits that free markets can
    > retard
    > the evolutionary process - the trick is to know how far these limitations
    > should go.

    No evidence from the MOQ that free markets retard evolutionary process. In
    fact, just the opposite. They are Dynamic.

    > In LILA, Pirsig argues that the Eastern bloc "communists" completely threw
    > the (free market) baby out with the bath water while - on the other
    > extreme
    > - the capitalists didn't understand why the child they nurtured was so
    > valuable. The MOQ recognises the value of the child and nurtures it but
    > doesn't let it run the household.

    Again, a lack of evidence.

    Ant is good at coming up with evidence from the MOQ to support such
    challenges, so I look forward to his response.

    Best regards,
    Platt

    > * - Platt and Ham are the two old guys in the corner with the big Dunce's
    > hats on when politics is discussed around here. You're not going to find
    > much wisdom there as regards this particular subject. However, they do
    > often escape the corner when other subjects (such as art and religion) are
    > discussed.

    * Ant and his friends are the New Age hippie types slumped in the corner
    on drugs who dream of the brave new world that will emerge in a socialist
    nirvana. You are not going to find there any new political ideas since
    Marx died in 1883. But most of the time they are sober enough to write
    theses and teach.

    Two can play the game, but are such smears really necessary?

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