From: Platt Holden (pholden@sc.rr.com)
Date: Sun Aug 28 2005 - 15:45:52 BST
Arlo:
> Was Jesus endorsing killing enemies? Some have historically argued "yes",
> others have said it is a "metaphorical death" that awaits non-believers
> being discussed. The point is that Zealots can find any singular verse and
> make it a War Cry. Eh?
So why did you ask me to provide a passage from the Koran? As you say,
anyone can find something in religious texts to support his point of view.
> [Arlo]
> It's my belief that violence erupts when comfort is threatened. Christian
> "fundamentalists" lead mostly cooshy, comfortable lives.
>
> [Platt]
> Maybe you should ask yourself how Christians managed to accomplish cooshy,
> comfortable lives. Maybe something to do with the Puritan ethic and hard
> work?
>
> [Arlo]
> More likely superior military strength that allowed the conquering of the
> Americas, and the fact that foreign governments have not been selling
> various factions of "American rebels" guns to kill each other, or (in the
> case of Iran) setting up puppet rulers loyal to American interests only.
> Etc. Etc. Etc. Maybe you should read up on the history of foreign
> involvement in the Middle East before you do now do a "Muslims are just
> lazy" argument.
Maybe you should ask how White European Males acquired superior military
strength.
> [Platt]
> When Bin Laden says "to kill the Americans and their allies - civilian and
> military - is an individual duty of every Muslim," I believe him.
>
> [Arlo]
> And does Pat Robertson represent Chrisitans when he called for the
> assassination of the Venezualan President? Or the Boston radio announcer
> who said "Let's kill all muslims" on the air? Do these people speak for
> you? Every place in the world, it seems, has its share of fanatical,
> racist, superiorists who demand the "others" be killed like germs. Eh?
Do you see any difference between Bin Laden, Pat Robertson and a Boston
radio announcer? As for killing like germs, I get down on my knees every
day and thank God for those who risked their lives to kill America's
enemies like germs and won victories for this great county. "It's moral
for a society to prevent a criminal from destroying it by killing him if
that is necessary." (LC, Note 136)
> [Platt]
> The question is: Do you believe them all? [relgions]
>
> [Arlo]
> I "believe" they all give mostly similar answers wrapped in their own
> cultural-historical symbolic language. I "do not believe" any one of these
> particular cultural-historical tellings is "truth". To paraphrase Pirsig, I
> would say believing such a thing would be like believing "polar
> coordinates" to be "Truth" and "Cartesian coordinates" to be "heresay".
>
> [Platt]
> What "truth" do you believe?
>
> [Arlo]
> That its the journey that's important, not the transcript.
So all that you write in these conversations you consider a journey, not a
reflection of your true belief? Maybe you're just playing Devil's
Advocate?
> [Arlo]
> The fundamentalists problem (whether Islamic or Christian... or whatever)
> is always that they consider the cultural-historical story to be Truth, and
> the message/meaning the story was meant to convey as secondary. Millions
> kill each other in wars over who said "thou shall not kill". The saddest
> irony I can think of.
>
> [Platt]
> I take it then you join with postmodernists who claim it's true there is no
> truth?
>
> [Arlo]
> I thought you've read Pirsig? Funny.
I read Pirsig. He says it's possible for more than one set of truths to
exists -- a statement he asserts as true. No matter how you phrase it, any
statement about truth admits to a general truth.
Or as Roger Scruton said about postmodernists: "The man who tells you
truth doesn't exist is asking you not to believe him. So don't"
Platt
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