From: ian glendinning (psybertron@gmail.com)
Date: Mon Aug 29 2005 - 10:03:24 BST
Case,
You said
MoQwise the current state certainly widens my vacation opportunities.
I say :-)
You said
The language of science and nature is Mathematics.
I agree that it is indeed awesome how much mathematics lies behind the
working of the "real" world, and who knows maybe one day such
mathematical language will one day explain the whole world, but
"mathematics" itself will need to (continue to) open up its language
beyond "traditional" arcane logic I believe.
Ian
On 8/28/05, Case <Case@ispots.com> wrote:
> [Ian wrote]
> I'm fascinated by Mandelbrot and other chaotic generators & attractors and
> have several applets on my own desktop to play with - the fascination only
> ever ends with the limits on graphic processing resolution on the domestic
> PC.)
>
> [Case replies]
> When I first ran across this I used a 486 and an early version of FractInit.
> I would leave the computer at work running over night then photograph the
> screen. My how times have changed. For an example of reiterative processes
> generating almost lifelike behavior, check out the Game of Life:
> http://www.ibiblio.org/lifepatterns/ Notice how the initially DQ layout
> resolves itself into stasis. Again we have extraordinarily simple equations
> producing highly complex results.
>
> [Ian wrote]
> I too believe formal Chaos (as opposed to Good Ol Fashioned Chaos) and
> Complexity have something to say about reality, and as such fit with
> "Quality".
>
> [Case replies]
> Hopefully formal Chaos is just a good way to describe and think about GOFC.
> Reality without complexity wouldn't amount to much would it. For example, I
> recall reading somewhere about the Daisy World. Where earth as a chaotic
> system oscillates (DQ) between static states (SQ). One state is the one we
> see now and the other is the ice ages where the planet is covered snow
> white. It is then up to the daisies to grow in clumps of nonwhite absorbing
> the reflected heat and warming the planet for other life forms to flourish
> and repopulate. That is: life acting as a static latch to preserve itself.
> Objectively it doesn't matter if any state prevails. Subjectively I prefer
> warmth and diversity. MoQwise the current state certainly widens my vacation
> opportunities.
>
> [Ian wrote}
> 1 is Static order
> 2 is GOF Chaos - the disorder of infinite entropy
> 3 is the coherent sweet spot where DQ exists.
>
> [Case relies]
> Not to be terribly picky but:
> 3 is the coherent sweet spot where harmony exists between DQ and SQ. In
> these pictures the really interesting parts appear so organic that fractal
> mathematic are used in special effect software to generate landscapes for
> movies and computer games. That is to mathematically model "reality" into
> virtual space.
>
> [David M wrote]
> My view is that scientists impose a language on
> nature. An experiment sets up a question that is directed towards
> nature, the expt is controlled and set off and the 'results' are analysed.
> We have in advance determined the language, posed the question and
> defined the possible answers. Such are the epistemological problems
> ditto post-modernism. But nevertheless the scientist listens to nature,
> listens for the answer that is given, sees which choice nature prefers,
> which box she ticks. Of course we can have no idea of any language
> preferences nature might have. But to do science we have to ask
> questions and interpret the signs our dumb goddess provides. This
> is an odd thing that the men in white coats do not like to mention.
> SOM is a bit embarassed about it.
>
> [Case replies]
> The language of science and nature is Mathematics. There is know known
> reason why this should be so but it does appear to be the case. Check out:
> "The World Within the World" by John Barrow for an exhaustive and exhausting
> elucidation. Pure mathematicians through out history have been surprised and
> dismayed over and over again when their arcane projections have turned out
> to have practical application. (see above)
>
> [Ian wrote]
>
> Slartibartfastian - I like it.
>
> [Case replies]
> I figured it was a bit obtuse but since so many of the group seem to be from
> the UK, I figured someone might get it.
>
>
>
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