Re: MD MoQ? Draw me a picture.

From: Case (Case@iSpots.com)
Date: Sun Aug 28 2005 - 17:36:51 BST

  • Next message: ian glendinning: "Re: MD The MOQ conference hoax"

    [Ian wrote]
    I'm fascinated by Mandelbrot and other chaotic generators & attractors and
    have several applets on my own desktop to play with - the fascination only
    ever ends with the limits on graphic processing resolution on the domestic
    PC.)

    [Case replies]
    When I first ran across this I used a 486 and an early version of FractInit.
    I would leave the computer at work running over night then photograph the
    screen. My how times have changed. For an example of reiterative processes
    generating almost lifelike behavior, check out the Game of Life:
    http://www.ibiblio.org/lifepatterns/ Notice how the initially DQ layout
    resolves itself into stasis. Again we have extraordinarily simple equations
    producing highly complex results.

    [Ian wrote]
    I too believe formal Chaos (as opposed to Good Ol Fashioned Chaos) and
    Complexity have something to say about reality, and as such fit with
    "Quality".

    [Case replies]
    Hopefully formal Chaos is just a good way to describe and think about GOFC.
    Reality without complexity wouldn't amount to much would it. For example, I
    recall reading somewhere about the Daisy World. Where earth as a chaotic
    system oscillates (DQ) between static states (SQ). One state is the one we
    see now and the other is the ice ages where the planet is covered snow
    white. It is then up to the daisies to grow in clumps of nonwhite absorbing
    the reflected heat and warming the planet for other life forms to flourish
    and repopulate. That is: life acting as a static latch to preserve itself.
    Objectively it doesn't matter if any state prevails. Subjectively I prefer
    warmth and diversity. MoQwise the current state certainly widens my vacation
    opportunities.

    [Ian wrote}
    1 is Static order
    2 is GOF Chaos - the disorder of infinite entropy
    3 is the coherent sweet spot where DQ exists.

    [Case relies]
    Not to be terribly picky but:
    3 is the coherent sweet spot where harmony exists between DQ and SQ. In
    these pictures the really interesting parts appear so organic that fractal
    mathematic are used in special effect software to generate landscapes for
    movies and computer games. That is to mathematically model "reality" into
    virtual space.

    [David M wrote]
    My view is that scientists impose a language on
    nature. An experiment sets up a question that is directed towards
    nature, the expt is controlled and set off and the 'results' are analysed.
    We have in advance determined the language, posed the question and
    defined the possible answers. Such are the epistemological problems
    ditto post-modernism. But nevertheless the scientist listens to nature,
    listens for the answer that is given, sees which choice nature prefers,
    which box she ticks. Of course we can have no idea of any language
    preferences nature might have. But to do science we have to ask
    questions and interpret the signs our dumb goddess provides. This
    is an odd thing that the men in white coats do not like to mention.
    SOM is a bit embarassed about it.

    [Case replies]
    The language of science and nature is Mathematics. There is know known
    reason why this should be so but it does appear to be the case. Check out:
    "The World Within the World" by John Barrow for an exhaustive and exhausting
    elucidation. Pure mathematicians through out history have been surprised and
    dismayed over and over again when their arcane projections have turned out
    to have practical application. (see above)

    [Ian wrote]

    Slartibartfastian - I like it.

    [Case replies]
    I figured it was a bit obtuse but since so many of the group seem to be from
    the UK, I figured someone might get it.

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