From: David Buchanan (DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org)
Date: Sun Mar 02 2003 - 21:42:36 GMT
MS:
I am very interested in the way in which Pirsig fits
into the postmodern direction of philosophy. I
originallt thought him to be quite the pioneer,
deconstructing the western episteme, showing the
problems, the non-neutrality, the impurity of thought.
But his reconstruction in Lila seems to undo the
integrity of his original mandate. Specifically, the
idea of the intellectual level seems to reintroduce
the problematic notions of the self, of human
rationality, of ideas, that fly in the face od the
concerns about 'humanism' in philosophy that Foucault
has warned us of, for example. I know he posits the
MoQ as a mere alternative to the SOM, but doesn't
Pirsig open himself to criticism here?
DMB:
I think its safe to say that Pirsig is post-modern in a broad sense. He's
critical of modernity. Maybe it would be even better to say he's
post-postmodern. I mean let's face it. We live in a post-modern world and
those who are still attached to modernity and the enlightenment project are
throwbacks to previous centuries. I can't speak specifically to Foucault's
concerns, but it seems pretty clear that Pirsig's enemy is not the world of
ideas or rationality itself, but is more specific than that. He's going
after certain assumptions and the conclusions they lead to, but he's not
rejecting philosophy or metaphysics in the way you seem to imagine. I mean,
if de-construction is not followed by re-construction, then one is merely
engaged in vandalism, not philosophy.
MS:
Can't the MoQ survive on only one level - the
material? Aren't the other three levels mere
extentions of the material, simply 'abstracting' the
movement and structure of physical particles such as
they make sense (e.g. the notion of an 'idea' in the
human brain, in the intellectual level)? Thus, is not
the introduction of an 'intellectual level' a
dangerous move, tempting people into seeing people as
'beings', with 'ideas', not purely patterns?
DMB:
No. The idea that minds are extensions of material brains is one of those
SOM assumptions that Pirsig works to overcome. In the MOQ, human beings are
concieved as a forest of static patterns. With any luck, this includes
intellectual patterns.
SM:
The reason why the MoQ appealed to me in the first
place is that it first seemed to remove problematic
concepts such as the self and the truth and so on,
from reality, and re-phrase it purely in terms of
structure. But the more I think about the
intellectual level, the less appealing it becomes.
DMB:
The MOQ appealed to you because it removes problematic concepts from
reality? I'd say it solves some problems, but this is done by re-examining
things like "self" and "truth", not just throwing them out the window. And
the reason Pirsig has provided a conceptual structure, which includes such
things as the intellectual level, is because, as he says, you can't have a
metaphysics that consists of just one word. (Quality) That's where he left
it in ZAMM and later saw how inadequate that is.
Do me a favor. Explain to me how this wish to go back to an unarticulated
world view is NOT just a big pile of anti-intellectual nihilism. Why would
we be happy with a one-word philosophy? I was thrilled when Lila came out.
For my tastes, ZAMM raised too many question that needed answers. I enjoyed
it in many ways, but I couldn't help but think, "Yea? So? What does that
mean?" I'm extremely suspicious of pomo's apparent hostility to the
philosophical attempts to understand things. I think this is just what
humans want to do and what they have always done. We're curious. We're
explorers. We want to know. Our inability to achieve perfection in this, in
my view, is an extremely weak reason to abandon philosophy. Besides,
metaphysics is fun.
Thanks.
DMB
PS Sorry about hijacking your thread with those posts about the politics of
philosophy. Hopefully this response to your original thread starter will
help to give it back.
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