From: Scott Roberts (jse885@cox.net)
Date: Mon Sep 12 2005 - 18:10:21 BST
Mark M,
Mark prev:
I get the feeling you are suggesting DQ and sq are the
same; sq is not other than DQ, DQ is not other than
sq.
Scott prev:
Same, yet since they are opposites, not the same.
Contradictory
identity.
For elaboration, see
http://www2.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/4798.html
Mark said:
OK, i've just read that link.
All this stuff about LoCI? It's Koan stuff: Stop
intellectualising and experience.
When experience is intellectualised you end up with
the DEsRIP.
Scott:
Intellectualizing is not experience?
As for it's being koan stuff, yes it is. But there is more than one approach
to koans, as is explained in the following from Robert Magliola's *Derrida
on the Mend* [p. 97], in which he contrasts differential mysticism with
centric mysticism. Please note the phrase "rigorous rationalism" being used
positively.
"As for "abrogation of the identity principle," an abrogation which is the
first norm of genuine Madhyamika (that is to say, Nagarjunism, or Madhyamika
which has remained faithful to Nagarjuna's original attitude towards
sunyata), the historical linkage between Ch'an/Zen and the origins is more
complex. The nature and history of the ... koan, for example, is subject to
great academic controversy, with some researchers claiming it operates quite
purely in Nagarjuna's mode, viz., a rigorous rationalism whereby logic
cancels itself out -- leaving devoidness to lapse (slide) by, interminably
[aka logic of contradictory identity - Scott]; and others seeing it as
operative in a Yogacaric mode, as an intuitionism, so the monk does *not*
through the assiduous use of reason *deduce* self-contradiction, but rather
*transcends* reason "in a flash". When W.T. de Bary speaks of Zen's interest
in Indian Hinayana sources and when Ninian Smart calls Zen "Japan's
substitute for Lesser Vehicle Buddhism", they are indicating a movement in
Zen away from what was the increasing absolutization of sunyata occurring in
most of the later Buddhist schools. But Westerners, through the good offices
of Zen's great missionary to the West, D. T. Suzuki, know only of
logocentric (and thus absolutist) Zen, and indeed there is no question that
logocentric Zen has been for quite some time now Zen's most popular form.
Or, to avoid needless confusion, let us call it "centric Zen", since its
whole effort is to transcend logos understood as the language of *is* and
*is not* and to achieve the 'undifferentiated center' (of course,
'undifferentiated center' is just a permutation of logos, in the specialized
Derridean terms we have already worked through at such length). Thus Suzuki
declares that "The meaning of the proposition 'A is A' is realized only when
'A is not-A', that Buddhist philosophy is the "philosophy of self-identity,"
and that in this self-idenity "there are no contradictions whatsoever." The
supreme self-identity, indeed the only self-identity in the ultimate sense,
is centric Zen's sunyata: "Emptiness is not a vacancy -- it holds in it
infinite rays of light and swallows all the multiplicities there are in this
world."...
"The differential movement in Zen of course opposes the centric Zen just
instanced..."
(He goes on to give some stories that exemplify differential Zen, too long
to quote. But in essence, it is about emptying out emptiness, so it does not
become an "undifferentiated center", as DQ is a center in the MOQ.)
- Scott
Mark
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