From: David M (davidint@blueyonder.co.uk)
Date: Thu Sep 22 2005 - 19:58:34 BST
Hi Ham
see comments
----- Original Message -----
From: <hampday@earthlink.net>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 9:40 PM
Subject: Re: MD The MOQ implies that there is more to reality than DQ & SQ.
> David --
>
>
>> What I have to say here seems compatible with the MOQ
>> and explores something more deeply than the MOQ does
>> but I think it is implied by the MOQ as I say.
>> The MOQ if a worthy change to subject-object metaphysics
>> and its materialist off-shoot will need exploring in many directions.
>
> What DO you have to say here, David? I'm at a loss to figure it out.
that there is a need to understand transcendence in the MOQ
>
> You said:
>
>> Absence is very important.
>> Without absence we could not recognise the world
>> and other people and that the world is bounded.
>
> You say that this "absence" was not "nothingness? If not the boundaries
> that define particular objects and events in space/time, then what is it?
> You also refer to an experienced "quality that has been withdrawn." Was
> that the quality illustrated by your analogy of a ball rolling under the
> chair? Is that quality "absenting" itself? I don't understand your
> rhetoric here.
>
Simply, that the ball can move in and out of your experience.....
>> I might claim that nothingness is only possible for that form of
>> experience that is not the whole/One, and perhaps the One
>> does not really become experienced prior to the differentiation
>> into the many.
>
> Nothingness "defines" our experience of things by separating them from
> each
> other, thus structuring a differentiated world. It also separates
> subjective awareness from the objects of experience, the primary division
> of
> reality (otherwise known as the mind/matter duality). If your "absence"
> is
> something else, it isn't obvious to me.
>
absence is well the capacity for patterns to absent themselves from our
individual experience. We use our analytical cutting powers to discern these
patterns or objects as you say. Is nothingness lurking in this
cutting -perhaps.
Or even absence. We isolate a pattern like 'the sun' by isolating it in the
pattern
called sky, so you sort of absent the sun from the sky to differentiate the
sun.
> I had said:
>
>> Things are experienced as arising from and returning to nothingness.
>> Such is the illusion we all call the "real" world. Obviously they are
>> supported by a primary source that transcends this coming and going.
>
>> Why illusion?
>> Patterns/beings just come and go, this is the reality of our
>> experience.No need to under value it.
>
> Insofar as physical reality is experienced as dimensional and pluralistic,
> it
> is not ultimate reality -- Absolute Essence. Those who understand this
> concept tend to describe man's "intellectually structured" world as
> "illusionary", although I don't insist on this term. Naturally, the world
> of experience is important to us and is the basis of all our activities in
> the life-experience.
>
Yes it is possible to postulate a One prior to the many. And glad to see
you improving your valuation of experience.
> David, since I seem to be having some difficulty getting your point, could
> you explain, without resorting to allegories, what precisely you would
> like
> the MoQ to change. If there's a new theory behind your statements, let's
> hear it. Otherwise, all I'm hearing is a disgruntled participant with an
> alternative view that he alludes to by innuendo.
>
My first poting for a while back in Aug/Sept I think says more about
my suggestion that it may be useful to see SQ as appearing and moving
between 4 realms. 2 realms of experience and 2 transcendent realms.
Bit similar to Poppers 3 worlds of course.Take a look in the archive.
> Appreciate your comments, David.
>
> Regards,
> Ham
>
>
>
>
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