From: Arlo Bensinger (ajb102@psu.edu)
Date: Fri Sep 23 2005 - 16:42:24 BST
>[Arlo]
> > Only if that person ever stated that he followed "Christian morals". I
> > certainly don't.
>
>You don't? How come you frequently cite the Bible and talk so much about
>the virtue of compassion?
I seem to recall mentioning it only to combat the hypocrisy of others who
taut it and ignore it at the same time. Can you point out a time when I
cited or talked about it outside of such a discussion?
> > But I believe the great majority of mores professed by
> > Jesus has been the same as those professed by nearly every religious code
> > or faith in history. Whether they were divinely inspired, or metaphorical
> > analogues that emerged out of DQ, is really beside the point to me.
>
>What gives them their authority then? Haven't we agreed that everybody
>saying something is right doesn't necessarily make it so?
There is the inner compulsion to live a certain way, and to follow certain
"morals". And then there is using power to exert that "morality" on others.
To this end, social existence makes such exertions impossible to ignore.
However, pubic discourse and open debate are supposed to be the best we can
do to make the system dynamic and fair to all individual moral stances.
Whether this works in practice or if its just theory is another matter.
You know, of course, that I don't have a problem with Christians who
practice Christianity from bringing that "morality" into the public
argument. What I mind are people who manipulate and use the message as a
means of exerting power over others while dodging allowing power to be
exerted on themselves. This is a dishonesty to any "authority", and only
evidences that one is more concerned with "power" than "Christian morality".
In short, if you truly desire a Judeo-Christian firmament to our laws, you
should argue the truth of what that is, not just select the bits that are
"convenient" to you. If that is what you wish to do, you aren't really
appealing to any "authority" other than your own self-interest and desire
for power.
As for what gives them "authority", supposing you mean a particular code
such as "killing is wrong", I wonder why you need an "authority" at all?
Does all morality come from the Commandments of Divine Beings? I could, and
I bet many others on this list could do so better, make a sound argument
within secular rationalism why "killing is wrong" without an appeal to a
Mysterious Supernatural Being Who Says So.
> > In other words, one does not have to be a "Christian" to think that feeding
> > the poor, sheltering the homeless, and healing the sick are High Quality
> > Social Morals. But these are the Three Fundamental Aspects to Christian
> > Morals. And pointing out to those who would use "Christian morals" to
> > oppose gay marriage, but deliberately scoff at doing what the vast majority
> > of this book taught, well... that's just calling a hypocrit a hypocrit.
> >
> > You ask me to condemn hypocracy within the MOQ. I'm frankly perplexed at
> > this. Perhaps you could start the conversation by pointing me at points you
> > think says the MOQ doesn't find hypocracy low value, or even finds it high
> > value.
>
>If you're perplexed I'm perplexed. You claim hypocrisy is immoral, but I
>can find no MOQ justification for your claim. That's why I asked. Maybe
>it's immoral at the intellectual level because it violates intellectual
>integrity. But, that's a stretch because thinking doesn't necessarily
>translate into to social behavior. So I wonder. If someone is guilty of
>hypocrisy, what is she guilty of?
Alright, then explain to me why "lying" is bad according to the MOQ? Is it?
Arlo
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