Re: MD The MOQ implies that there is more to reality than DQ & SQ.

From: David M (davidint@blueyonder.co.uk)
Date: Sat Sep 24 2005 - 21:53:46 BST

  • Next message: mark maxwell: "Re: MD Cybernetics and sq evolution - Secondary ontology as harmony."
  • Next message: Arlo J. Bensinger: "Re: MD Individuals and Collectives"

    Hi Scott

    see comments

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Scott Roberts" <jse885@localnet.com>
    To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2005 9:27 PM
    Subject: Re: MD The MOQ implies that there is more to reality than DQ & SQ.

    > David M,
    >
    > DM said:
    > I think this is important. My view is that we should understand DQ
    > as that activity which determines what becomes actual from the
    > options that are potentially available. The whole thing about levels
    > is about how these levels enable DQ to reach further into the realm
    > of the possible and make more complex posiibilities actual. SQ is
    > always what is actual. But only certain potential patterns can be
    > repeatedly drawn into the actual and this is what we call SQ.
    >
    > Scott:
    > If all that is (according to the MOQ) is SQ and DQ, then what are those
    > "certain potential patterns [that] can be repeatedly drawn into the actual
    > and this is what we call SQ"?

    DM: Well potential patterns (I was making a temporary distinction)
    sounds like SQ to me too, this means that there is actualised SQ that
    we can experience in the shared empirical realm, but yes also
    potential SQ that we can experience in imagination and can nurse
    maid into actuality via our individual activity -which is DQ in action.

    They can't be SQ and they can't be DQ

    DM: I think they can be. Once we see the difference between actualised
    SQ and the larger realm of potential/infinite SQ. But potential and actual
    may both be called real. Let's face it the potential that is not actualised
    does influence the actualised. What else is a dream, an ideal?

     (which
    > is unpatterned), so what are they? They are surely real

    DM: Agreed, this is the big one: what has been called 'only'
    potential is realand should not be called 'only'.

    if they can be drawn
    > from to provide SQ, yet they are not experienced.

    DM: We can experience the potentia via imagination, what else
    is intellect based on other than contact (experiencing of) with the
    possible!

    >
    > I see SQ as being potential,

    Yes

    since being a static pattern it is repeatable,
    > the basic form which various

    actualities actualizes.

    ????clarify

     Any experience is
    > unique, yet follows pre-existing patterns in a more or less novel way,
    > sometimes leading to new potential.

    yes

    One thing this shows to me (that I would
    > see SQ as potential, while you see it as actual)

    it is both

    is that there is something
    > fundamentally missing from the MOQ, which results in poorly thought-out
    > claims such as "reality = experience".

    You are limiting experience here, I say imagination is experience too.
    DQ is an activity that pulls potential SQ (a unified realm) into the realm
    of actual SQ
    (a realm experienced via the many)

    DM DM DM DM

    >
    > - Scott
    >
    >
    >
    > MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
    > Mail Archives:
    > Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
    > Nov '02 Onward -
    > http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
    > MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
    >
    > To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
    > http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
    >
    >

    MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
    Mail Archives:
    Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
    Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
    MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net

    To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
    http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html

    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Sat Sep 24 2005 - 23:49:00 BST