From: platootje@netscape.net
Date: Fri Sep 30 2005 - 07:59:11 BST
resending this because I believe it didn't came thru....
-----Original Message-----
From: platootje
To: moq_discuss@moq.org
Sent: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 07:03:44 -0400
Subject: Re: MD Consciousness/MOQ, definition of
Hello David:
>Maybe physical was a bad word, but it still fits best I guess. I mean
>that these things I called physical can be explained by a chain of
>cause and effect. Except for your "picking up of thoughts", which is
>not explicable by cause and effect chains. You either believe in it
>or you don't, but nobody has found any prove that there are thoughts
>out there waiting to be picked up (as far as I'm aware).
Well, applying your own cause and effect reasoning, can you have a
thought that
has no cause? If you answer no then thoughts are subject to cause and
effect, if
you answer yes then there is free will and the world is not
deterministic.
>As far as I'm concerned physics are based on quantum-physics. Quantum-
>physics explains more than physics does, because physics is a subset
>of quantum-physics.
I would rather say that quantum-physiscs is a subset of physics.
Which doesn't mean that the laws of physic are
>invalid, they're just not universal enough to explain everything.
Some apply with large masses and large velocity (relativity) some apply
at very
microscopic level (quatum-physics).
>[Reinier earlier]
>>>> Think about it.... you can because the stuff your brains made up
>>>> off is able to sense the stuff that thougts are made up off. We're
>>>> a kind of radio and we can pick up different frequencies, depending
>>>> on which sense we use.
>
>[me]
>>> For that we'd have to believe that there's
>>> something like "consciousness" or "thoughts" floating around which
we
>>> are able to pick up through some non-explicable process.
>
>[Reinier again]
>> No, thoughts are the result of experience or valueing, like every
>> else is.
>
>Err... is there a contradiction in what you're saying or am I just
>not getting this right? Either we pick up thoughts that are already
>there, as you said earlier, or thoughts are created through the
>process of experiencing. Which one is it?
I admit my mistake, I did not do a good job explaining what I meant.
The brain
intellectualizes thoughts. It can certainly alter thoughts and thus
produce new
ones on an intellectual level.
To apply it to the MoQ, a thought is an intellectual static pattern
coming from
DQ. Since it is the brain that 'works' with it, we call it a thought
and it
becomes part of the intellectual level.
At the same time there is DQ that gets 'valued' on other levels and
thus becomes
part of the social, organic or inorganic level. It all comes from the
same
'source', DQ, but the level on which it gets valued, creates the mental
picture
of it (This is the intellectual S/O division).
Kind regards,
Reinier.
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