Re: MD reply to Gav Lila it's beyond our current technology Captain Kirk

From: Rebecca Temmer (ratemmer.lists@gmail.com)
Date: Tue Oct 04 2005 - 21:59:39 BST

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    Think globally, act locally...
    thanks for the optimism Gavin...
     Rebecca

     On 10/4/05, gav <gav_gc@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
    >
    > hey mladen,
    >
    > --- Mladen Duvnjak wrote:
    >
    > > Well I'm not a scientist Gav but we either start
    > > using hydrogen which has problems because it's more
    > > explosive and the current use of electrolysis to get
    > > hydrogen from water requires huge energy input. But
    > > apparently the scientist are lookng into bacteria to
    > > get the hydrogen out.
    > > Fusion of course would be the holy grail of the
    > > techies but that's light years away
    > > We could run cars of vegetable oil or ethanol it
    > > would reduce the need to fight wars in the middle
    > > east and they aren't as heavy as oil so they're a
    > > bit cleaner on the CO2 output.
    > > The problem is we all want modern technological
    > > society and with China and India industrialising at
    > > a rapid rate this will make global warming worse
    > > so in the short run we're fucked for ideas unless we
    > > terraform the atmosphere itself and build technology
    > > to remove excess CO2 from the atmosphere
    > > I only made the point about oil because our
    > > civilisation is too dependent on it. If I had the
    > > answers I would do something about it but I work at
    > > a bank I'm not a scientist and I'm not that clever
    > > The best we can do is put solar farms in all the
    > > worlds major deserts, windfarms, hydro electric
    > > elswhere and nip at the edges a bit
    > > apart from that there's only fission and that's not
    > > as clean as fusion
    > > I wish i had the answer but I don't
    >
    > i disagree. i think you have already listed some good
    > and interesting answers. perhaps the major diff in our
    > views (and, concurrently, our levels of optimism) is
    > simply one of scale.
    > at the macro level the problems seem insurmountable:
    > too big for our ponderously slow bureaucratic systems
    > to respond adequately too. but....at the micro level,
    > at the level of the individual and community, these
    > problems become manageable.
    > for instance energy provision for a city is a big ask
    > and not even the right question. energy provision for
    > a household is doable now. people are doing it all
    > over the world now *and* enjoying all the amenities we
    > enjoy in western urban situations. i spent the first
    > half of this year in a revamped stone cottage in ibiza
    > that produced its own power from sun and wind and had
    > plenty of electricity.
    > moreover applying new ideas at the local level has a
    > cumulative knock on at higher levels.
    > for instance in japan the seto inland sea has been
    > increasingly polluted over several decades of industry
    > development on its shorelines. over the last few years
    > the employment of EM (effective microoragnisms)
    > technology at the household and business level in the
    > prefectures bordering the inland sea has lead to rapid
    > amelioration of the pollution problems. the sea is
    > becoming clean again.
    >
    > not only can we take care of our needs locally now, we
    > can actually help heal the planet, in our lifetimes,
    > by doing so.
    >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > ========================================
    > > Message Received: Oct 02 2005, 10:00 AM
    > > From: "gav"
    > > To: moq_discuss@moq.org
    > > Cc:
    > > Subject: Re: MD a query about Lila
    > >
    > > hi mladen,
    > >
    > > mladen: MOQ is great but how do we move from an oil
    > > based combustion econpmy to a sustain able clean
    > > technology economy.
    > >
    > > gav:permaculture
    > >
    > >
    > >
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