From: ian glendinning (psybertron@gmail.com)
Date: Wed Oct 05 2005 - 07:50:27 BST
My view is pretty much Gav's, less is more.
This stuff benefits from private local action all adding up to macro
effects. Using less energy isn't rocket science - it's a choice.
If there were easy answers and choices at the macro level I think they
would already be identified. Part of the problem at this "organised"
scale is politicisation of the decision making process, and the
culture of having to rationalise and justify decisions with numbers -
something MoQ could fix, but only after it becomes embedded in a few
generations of our global culture.
(And BTW - I am in the Oil & Gas business.)
Ian
On 10/5/05, Rebecca Temmer <ratemmer.lists@gmail.com> wrote:
> Think globally, act locally...
> thanks for the optimism Gavin...
>
> Rebecca
>
>
> On 10/4/05, gav <gav_gc@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> > hey mladen,
> >
> > --- Mladen Duvnjak wrote:
> >
> > > Well I'm not a scientist Gav but we either start
> > > using hydrogen which has problems because it's more
> > > explosive and the current use of electrolysis to get
> > > hydrogen from water requires huge energy input. But
> > > apparently the scientist are lookng into bacteria to
> > > get the hydrogen out.
> > > Fusion of course would be the holy grail of the
> > > techies but that's light years away
> > > We could run cars of vegetable oil or ethanol it
> > > would reduce the need to fight wars in the middle
> > > east and they aren't as heavy as oil so they're a
> > > bit cleaner on the CO2 output.
> > > The problem is we all want modern technological
> > > society and with China and India industrialising at
> > > a rapid rate this will make global warming worse
> > > so in the short run we're fucked for ideas unless we
> > > terraform the atmosphere itself and build technology
> > > to remove excess CO2 from the atmosphere
> > > I only made the point about oil because our
> > > civilisation is too dependent on it. If I had the
> > > answers I would do something about it but I work at
> > > a bank I'm not a scientist and I'm not that clever
> > > The best we can do is put solar farms in all the
> > > worlds major deserts, windfarms, hydro electric
> > > elswhere and nip at the edges a bit
> > > apart from that there's only fission and that's not
> > > as clean as fusion
> > > I wish i had the answer but I don't
> >
> > i disagree. i think you have already listed some good
> > and interesting answers. perhaps the major diff in our
> > views (and, concurrently, our levels of optimism) is
> > simply one of scale.
> > at the macro level the problems seem insurmountable:
> > too big for our ponderously slow bureaucratic systems
> > to respond adequately too. but....at the micro level,
> > at the level of the individual and community, these
> > problems become manageable.
> > for instance energy provision for a city is a big ask
> > and not even the right question. energy provision for
> > a household is doable now. people are doing it all
> > over the world now *and* enjoying all the amenities we
> > enjoy in western urban situations. i spent the first
> > half of this year in a revamped stone cottage in ibiza
> > that produced its own power from sun and wind and had
> > plenty of electricity.
> > moreover applying new ideas at the local level has a
> > cumulative knock on at higher levels.
> > for instance in japan the seto inland sea has been
> > increasingly polluted over several decades of industry
> > development on its shorelines. over the last few years
> > the employment of EM (effective microoragnisms)
> > technology at the household and business level in the
> > prefectures bordering the inland sea has lead to rapid
> > amelioration of the pollution problems. the sea is
> > becoming clean again.
> >
> > not only can we take care of our needs locally now, we
> > can actually help heal the planet, in our lifetimes,
> > by doing so.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ========================================
> > > Message Received: Oct 02 2005, 10:00 AM
> > > From: "gav"
> > > To: moq_discuss@moq.org
> > > Cc:
> > > Subject: Re: MD a query about Lila
> > >
> > > hi mladen,
> > >
> > > mladen: MOQ is great but how do we move from an oil
> > > based combustion econpmy to a sustain able clean
> > > technology economy.
> > >
> > > gav:permaculture
> > >
> > >
> > >
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