From: mark maxwell (laughingpines@yahoo.co.uk)
Date: Thu Oct 06 2005 - 20:08:09 BST
[Case]
Confusion melting away with experience sounds
uncomfortablly like habituation. One can eventually
adjust to the sound of fingernails on chalkboard;
perhaps even learn to like it.
Mark:
I read ZMM for the first time a few months before Lila
was first published: My uncle let me borrow his copy
of ZMM, which he had had for some years, and a few
months later my uncle bought his first edition copy of
Lila and gave it to me because he didn't like it. I,
on the other hand, read ZMM and Lila as one continuous
book, so to speak. As such, didn't experienced a
problem with Quality/DQ until people such as my uncle
and yourself began to quibble.
These people generated the source of my confusion, and
that confusion melted away as i stepped back and
relied upon my own view of the matter.
I suppose you could say i have therefore habitually
come to rely upon my own views rather than those of
others. This is a Buddhist doctrine of 'see for
yourself' and that is all i suggest you do Case.
As for the fingernail on the blackboard point; i don't
find that noise distressing in any case, but i get
what you mean. For me, the feeling of cotton wool is
distressing.
[Case]
Strike heresy insert silly.
Mark:
Pick up a piece of Horse shit and through it at a
statue of Jesus. A few Hundred years ago you would be
lucky if you did not have your heart cut out and
nailed to an Oak tree. Silly?
Today you would be arrested and thrown in clink for a
spell to cool off, and maybe charged for damages.
But if you threw your Horse shit at a Buddha statue, a
buddhist would not be offended.
[Case]
Book him, Dano.
Mark:
At this point, i'll thank you for helping me to think
about Cybernetics and sq evolution - Secondary
ontology as harmony. It's excitting to have remained
so close to the topic in hand.
[Case]
Call me dense if you will but I see no distinction at
all between Quality and DQ described above.
Mark:
I have no problem with that.
Case:
I still maintain that one term or the other is
superfluous and perniciously so. I find my definition
of DQ simpler, more useful as a pragmatic tool and
more consistant with the world as I see it.
Mark:
That's fine.
However, chaos is not DQ in the MOQ and RMP underlines
this in the 1993 AHP conference tape when he says, 'DQ
is not chaos' or something telling like that.
I don't equate chaos with anything other than
patterned nonesense. Patterned nonsense is analogous
to cancer in biological patterns, rioting in social
patterns, and Ham Priday in intellectual patterns.
I'm sure you get the drift.
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