From: Matt the Enraged Endorphin (mpkundert@students.wisc.edu)
Date: Tue Mar 04 2003 - 19:07:28 GMT
Matt S said:
It's a lot more than just changing the terms from "substance" to "stable
pattern of value". Without addressing what that pattern is, it pretty much
leaves it exactly as it was before. We still seem to have a thing "out
there" that is exactly the same as substance, but now we call it a pattern
of value.
Kevin said:
Exactly. Herein lies the nexus of Pirsig's position as a pomo &
metaphysician which seems to spin many readers in circles.....
Matt:
I found this last post of yours, Kevin, to be quite good. The string of
rhetorical questions get at the heart of how to classify Pirsig's
achievement. You asked, "is it really Metaphysics if you don't offer a
concrete epistemology?" I think this is the point at which modern
philosophers will answer "No" and most here will answer "Yes." Since Kant,
philosophers decided that you needed to do epistemology before you did
metaphysics. Since the middle of this century, more and more people have
been coming out against epistemology. They don't think epistemology will
lead anywhere.
Pirsig seems to strike the view that you don't need epistemology. It's all
intuitive. You simply need to systematize your thoughts. As Kevin says,
"Pirsig is committed to foundations. He's committed to offering a firm
context for operating." Completing the post-modern turn, however, defuses
any attempt at firmness. One of the post-modern insights is that our
soft/hard metaphors aren't working out in metaphysics, just as our ocular
metaphors aren't working out in epistemology. There isn't a philosophical
foundation that if not found will lead to the destruction of knowledge as
we know it. The post-moderns suggest that we eschew these foundational
metaphors, that the distinction between hard natural sciences and soft
social sciences is one about overall agreement. They suggest that
"foundations" of knowledge not be seen as needed at all. That we see the
conversation we are having now not founded on some bedrock, but floating
through the air. The only thing keeping the conversation going is us, not
because we've found a foundation upon which to plant our feet, but because
we keep flapping our gums.
Matt
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archives:
Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Tue Mar 04 2003 - 19:08:30 GMT