From: david buchanan (dmbuchanan@hotmail.com)
Date: Sun Oct 16 2005 - 01:56:50 BST
Hey MOQers:
Matt on Thu 13 Oct:
>My issue with DMB on his use of "pure sensation" is on just this point,
>that DMB, following Pirsig and others, wants to get philosophical mileage
>out of the distinction between pre- and post-, pure and impure experience.
>DMB made the same move towards the common sense context as you and Pirsig
>did when he tried to convince me that my views were absurd because they
>neglected the fact that when we look at art or listen to music we aren't
>talking. But that's not what _I'm_ talking about and its not all _Pirsig
>or DMB_ are talking about. If it were, there'd be no fight. You would be
>right, it would be a verbal difference. But as far as I can tell, this
>ain't.
Likewise on Fri 14 Oct, Matt said:
When I deny X1, most people usually take me to be denying X2 and make fun of
me
(like DMB did when he thought I couldn't see the difference between looking
at art and talking about art).
dmb says:
The difference between looking at art and talking about art was very far
from my point and I certainly think you're smart enogh to know the
difference without anyone having to point out such a thing. I'm simply using
the examples that Pirsig uses in trying to talk about experiences that are
pre-intellectual, pre-linguistic, ineffable. The hot stove, the new song
heard on the street and the paintings of El Greco are all used as examples
of when Dynamic Quality becomes noticable to Westerners like us. I'm not
trying to reduce DQ to commonsensical "gut reactions" or to the simple act
of shutting your mouth for a while. And by the way, Matt, we very much agree
about "gut reactions". People who live by such impulses are doomed to
hedonism, fascism or some other short-sighted self indulgences. Its a
degenerate road to ruin. I think its downright creepy to equate "gut
reactions" with a "primary empirical experience".
When I was in talk radio, the boss told me to stop being cerebral and
instead to "think with my gut". Something tells me she wasn't asking me to
identify with the undifferentiated asethetic continuum. Funny thing is that
if I had given her my gut reaction to this advice, I would've puked on her
desk or at least pointed out that guts really don't know much of anything.
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