From: Platt Holden (pholden@sc.rr.com)
Date: Tue Oct 18 2005 - 12:37:03 BST
> [Arlo]
> And yet Pirsig still authored and published ZMM/Lila.
Pirsig didn't publish ZMM/Lila. He sought a publisher and finally found
one.
>Hardly doing so
> "under the gun", and yet obviously not for any "profit motive" either.
If there was no profit money he would have written the books then put them
away in his attic. Instead, he sought to have them published. Publishers
are not charitable organizations.
> So,
> why is what motivated him so different from what would motivate anyone
> else? Is he some super-human who aspires to things the rest of us would
> not?
No, but he is just one person. People do things from many different
motives. Not everyone is a Mother Teresa for God's sake. :-)
> [Platt]
> Those who work 50-60 hours a week are just as likely to be top executives.
>
> [Arlo]
> Never said otherwise. What I said was that anyone who works 50-60 hours per
> week would hardly say their labor is not a large part of the Quality of
> their lives. When that labor is invested with personal meaning and
> significance, those 50-60 hours (no matter how strenuous and intensive) are
> much higher Quality than those same 50-60 hours being spent doing dull,
> repetitive, meaningless work.
What is dull, repetitive, meaningless work to you may be considered
worthwhile and fulfilling by another. I wouldn't want to be a 50-60 hour
top executive regardless of how much money I was offered.
> [Arlo]
> And nor do I, although you seem to repeat this for some reason. They are
> certainly not "lesser people", that's my whole point. As for the jobs being
> "lesser", are you saying that owning one's own business is no greater
> quality (in labor) than working as a retail clerk at Box-Mart? If you'd
> reread ZMM, I think you'd see that Pirsig would agree that those jobs (any
> jobs) that remove the individual from identification with the whole are low
> quality. All his examples focused on the craftsman, who was able to make
> decisions, respond to the materials, be "in charge" of the activity, not a
> cog in a wheel doing stuff that has no personal meaning to them.
I don't think you or Pirsig are in any position to judge whether some jobs
are better than others. You can say "I wouldn't want that job" but that's
as far as you can go IMO. To slam low paying jobs as being beneath human
dignity is the a slam at all those who work at such jobs.
> What's funny, though, is how you say "conservatives don't look down on...
> as lesser people". And yet that's exactly what your market commoditization
> of individuals does. My "value" as a person is measure by the capital I am
> able to earn. The "better" I am, the "more" I earn. If anyone thinks poor
> people are "lesser" it is those with the mentality that accumulating wealth
> is a measure of value. Just like you did, when you implied that Sam Walton
> was ipso facto a culturally enriching person by virtue of having created a
> financial empire.
I said Sam Walton was a culturally enriching person because he provided
goods and services people wanted in a free market.
> [Platt]
> I hope "free markets" never become old and tedious. They are constantly
> under assault from the left.
>
> [Arlo]
> You see, Erin. This is type of "junk" the dichotomy brings to the dialogue.
You call assaults on the free market "junk, yet attack a free marketeer
like Sam Walton. Conclusion: your attack on Walton is "junk." I agree.
Platt
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