From: Arlo J. Bensinger (ajb102@psu.edu)
Date: Fri Oct 28 2005 - 17:22:37 BST
[Arlo previously]
Which comes full circle to my original question. What "self-interest" did
Pirsig fulfill by authoring and seeking publication for ZMM?
[Platt responded]
It pleased him, made him happy, gave him a sense of well-being. I doubt if
he did it to make himself miserable out of some masochistic desire.
[Arlo then]
No one said he did not feel pleasure. I asked from where this pleasure
(which is simply a response to Quality) originated. From "profit" or from
"doing Good" on the social and Intellectual levels?
[Platt]
So you admit he wrote for selfish reasons -- to feel pleasure.
[Arlo]
Only until you conflate "pleasuse" with "profit". Actually, its a charged word,
implying biological-level quality (is that why you use it?). Let's use "a sense
of accomplishment". Yes, he wrote it to feel a "sense of accomplishment",
derived from enriching the social and Intellectual patterns of culture, not for
biological-level self-interest.
[Platt]
You imply that the profit motive is Bad, yet the breadth and depth of
intellectual patterns disseminated by profit-driven media -- from books,
newspapers, magazines, radio, film, TV, internet -- is immeasurable. Far
from being restricted to the biological level as you seem to believe
(without furnishing much evidence), the profit motive is inexorably linked
to social and intellectual patterns.
[Arlo]
Again, you conflate the profit-result with a profit-impetus. No one is saying
that in a capitalist economy you can operate without some profit. The question
is, is that all that the "profit-driven media" care about? Is that their sole
concern? I don't think so.
Witness the reaction of the publisher to ZMM. He knew the book would not
generate profit, but deemed it important to publish anyways. In your model of
pure-proft motivatiation, ZMM would be sitting on a shelf in Pirsig's attic, if
it would have even been penned, which I doubt.
Now, I can understand how you can condemn your friends at Fox for determining
their content by profit, rather than social or Intellectual quality, but Fox is
an outcast example in the media.
The points are (1) while profit has driven a lot of activity, it does so because
culture elevates it to a supreme condition, (2) profit motivation does bring a
lot of stuff to the market, some good and some bad, but most of it is
inconsequential to social and Intellectual evolution, (3) it is the stuff that
enters the market pushed by motivation beyond self-profit (such as ZMM) that
nearly always ends up being the big things that move us forward.
Berners-Lee, for example, did not "invent" the Internet "to become rich". Nor
did Edison "invent" the lightbulb for monetary profit. Nor did Einstein derive
the Theory of Relativity because he wanted money. All of them responded to a
Quality higher than personal profit.
Sam Walton, however, did start Walmart because he wanted money. And if Walmart
disappeared forever, history would not even wink, our evolutionary trajectory
would be unaffected, and the books people write two hundred years from now
about the "great people of the beginning of the 21st century" would be
unaffected. Our local economies and neighborhoods would, however, be much
stronger.
We should teach people to emulate the likes of Berners-Less, Edison, Einstein
and Pirsig and ignore the likes of Walton. The first group, I believe, are more
representative of the natural social condition, and not a debasing return to
biological level conditions.
How sad that in your worldview, it is natural for people to be like Walton, and
unnatural for them to be like Pirsig. And how destructive...
[Platt]
By buying a Harley, you "did Good" to all those employed by that company,
not to mention the stockholders, suppliers, and others associated with the
company including the charitable organizations who received contributions
from Harley employees. By riding a Harley you "do Good" by giving gas
station owners the means of making a living, by gainfully employing people
at tire companies, by buying goods and services on the road that allow
your fellow man to be self-sufficient rather than wards of the state --
the "do-Good" list by indulging in your selfish pleasures goes on and on.
That's what it's all about. That's why capitalism and the free market has
resulted in a standard of living only dreamed about by our ancestors.
[Arlo]
So charity begins by buying all I can? What about the great debt generated by
consumers in this country, who in their eagerness to be charitable by running
up credit card debt, are suddenly entrapped in what amounts to indentured
servitude to Citibank?
At any rate, my philanthropy for the year appears to be officially "over", as
the temperature has hovered here in the 40s for the past few weeks, and we have
an unseasonal snow storm last week.
[Platt]
Who has done more to eradicate poverty and suffering and advanced intellectual
patterns, profit-motivated businessmen like Bill Gates or Mother Teresa?
[Arlo]
Bill Gates has done nothing to advance the Intellectual patterns. He is merely a
saavy and shifty businessman who has gotten wealthy off the intellectual labor
of others. Whoever it was that actually developed the algorithms, wrote the
code and did the brain work, they are the people who enriched the Intellectual
level. That Gates has exploited their work to make himself rich, and is then
held as responsible for the Intellectual achievements of those he exploited, is
reprehensible. But expected.
Arlo
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