Re: MD Where the ads take aim

From: Erin (macavity11@yahoo.com)
Date: Tue Nov 08 2005 - 17:07:31 GMT

  • Next message: Arlo J. Bensinger: "RE: MD A Question of Balance / Rules of the Game"

    I thought that was Matt that introduced relationalism?

    Sorry but I am going to get on my bitch and moan for a
    minute.

    On the list I sometimes get a sense of a paranoia that
    any dissent of Pirsig is anti-quality.

    --for example...when marsha says something about
    people coming here to destroy the most valuable asset
    and when I ask for an explanation just get an evasive
    "glad you are here"

    --the whole pro-moq and anti-moq drawing the sand in
    the line attempt

    Also Ian when you were writing your question about
    maxwell's post you made a comment about "apparent"
    positivity or niceness on the list. It reminded me of
    this paragraph I just read about T. Merton where he
    wrote that somebody was nice and he didn't believe
    him.
    I think there is a lot of paranoia in this list
    interaction...maybe less if we believe others interest
    in quality regardless if they are dissenter or not?

    I am getting on my soapbox now because you brought up
    the importance of drawing connections...

    I was interested in drawing connections of ads and art
    when I asked a few questions about Warhol's Campbell
    soup painting but there didn't seem any interest in
    drawing connections. I just wonder why we preach we
    are ONE, making connections are so important but then
    at some topic just freeze ...like finding connections
    and parallels between art and advertising... So let me
    offer another question to explore...if this evaded
    also then I just don't see the desire to make
    connections.

    Can the buddha rest as comfortably in a Nike ad as a
    Rembrandt?

    I am definitely interested in improving the quality of
    advertising field but don't think the "adbusters"
    approach is going to work and to me see nothing about
    making connections in that approach.

    Erin

    --Ian in your

    --- ian glendinning <psybertron@gmail.com> wrote:

    > When to dive into this thread ? That is the question
    > ....
    >
    > Marsha, you're right, this is a biggie.
    > Ant, you're right it's about "drawing connections
    > between issues that
    > are perceived to be discrete. Draw parallels and
    > make links ..."
    > Rebecca coined the term "relationism" for what we're
    > about.
    >
    > It's why I blog - to make connections, parallels and
    > links. It's where
    > quality of knowledge comes from. Adbusters was
    > (until just a couple of
    > days ago spookily) a link for over two years in my
    > blog side-bar,
    > along with Akido-Activism.
    >
    > However, each to his/her own, but as many of you
    > know I'm
    > uncomfortable with direct political action, in a
    > philsophical
    > community, because by definition it actions one
    > thing in this
    > interlinked whole, and the outcomes are not
    > predictably good.
    >
    > Handwringing aside, there is precious little to
    > recommend boycotting
    > exports from developing countries. It's lose-lose
    > for everyone
    > involved. (And don't forget developing countries and
    > developing to get
    > somewhere.)
    >
    > The real thing to continue focussing on is the
    > framework of values
    > that says big global brand companies are necessarily
    > good. (relative
    > competitiveness says any local economy will produce
    > what it can more
    > economically than anyone else, and global markets
    > will say that's
    > where we will buy them from). We need to instill
    > widely, values that
    > downplay objective numbers. We in MoQ.org are
    > relatively well placed
    > to promote this; Let's not miss that advantage, in
    > pursuit of shopping
    > boycotts anyone can do.
    >
    > Remember Adam Smith wrote about morals as well as
    > economics.
    > Make what's useful, buy what's useful.
    >
    > What's not useful (to anyone except those measuring
    > the size of the
    > numbers in big brand company accounts, and equity
    > markets) is the
    > contribution of the big brand company. Buy products
    > of developing
    > economies through the most direct channels you can
    > find, but don't
    > stop buying them, except as a more general
    > moderation in unnecessary
    > consumerism. (If the world stopped being consumers
    > in one big hit,
    > we'd have a major bloody crisis on our hands for
    > several decades, and
    > the survivors would be those who can manufacture
    > what they find
    > useful. Guess who.)
    >
    > For moral dilemmas of big business management, try
    > this.
    >
    http://www.tecnun.es/Crescola/english/activi/2005.htm
    >
    > You know, I may re-instate my adbusters link.
    >
    > Ian
    >
    > On 11/8/05, MarshaV <marshalz@charter.net> wrote:
    > >
    > > At 05:46 PM 11/7/2005, Matt asked and Ant asked
    > again:
    > >
    > > >What do you think guys (gals)?
    > >
    > > I think this thread calls for high quality action.
    > The holy, holy,
    > > holy thing becomes meaningless in comparison. "If
    > not NOW, when?"
    > >
    > > Marsha
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
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