Re: MD Quality, subjectivity and the 4th level

From: skutvik@online.no
Date: Wed Nov 09 2005 - 09:34:18 GMT

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    Scott and Expedition.

    7 Nov. you wrote:

    > Scott said:
    > > Yes, as I've stated many times, I consider Intellect and Quality
    > > (and Consciousness) to be names for the same (non-)thing.
     
    > Bo said:
    > It has finally penetrated, but then what? Are there static
    > "intellectual" levels (inorganic, biological ...etc.) in your
    > metaphysics?
     
    > Scott:
    > Since wherever there is value there is intellect (and vice versa)
    > nothing changes static-level wise. An SPOV can be considered an SPOI
    > as well, the word for which is 'concept'. It's the same pattern, just
    > a different emphasis in thinking about it.

    OK nice to have this stated. Your metaphysics is one of
    "concepts"; Inorganic concepts, biological concepts ...etc.
     
    > Scott:
    > I certainly didn't intend anything subtle about this. "Outside" is
    > whatever I am conscious of that does not appear to have originated
    > with me.

    Your 4th. level's concepts have originated with ourselves, while
    the rest of the levels' concepts have originated without ourselves.
    Congratulations Scott, another S/O variant!

    I can't forbid your seeing this as revolutionary, but to me it looks
    the same as the "original" MOQ with the 4th. level as mind,
    something that makes all levels mind patterns. Which was what
    started my struggle to bring the MOQ back to its roots, namely
    that the S/Os - among them "with me/without me" - is the 4th
    level's value.

    An aside:
    I'm aware that strictly seen the "mindish" part of the MOQ begins
    with the social level (according to the known method of "encasing
    the SOM) but this never works, the mind/matter enigma is just
    moved to the bio/socio couple.

    > So it would include social, biological, and inorganic SPOV
    > but not any feelings instigated by encountering such SPOV. For
    > intellectual SPOV, it includes your posts (from my perspective) or my
    > posts (from your perspective).

    I had hoped that you were about to bring something new into the
    discussion, but this is old wine in a new bottle .

    Bo

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