RE: MD Quality, DQ and SQ

From: Case (Case@iSpots.com)
Date: Sun Nov 13 2005 - 01:28:34 GMT

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    [Paul Turner]
    I propose that in ongoing discussions the term 'Quality' alone should be
    dropped, as Pirsig suggests, to avoid problems resulting from a lack of
    clarity.

    "Today I tend to think of Quality as covering both Dynamic and static
    quality. So far no problems have arisen with this confusion of terms but if
    they do arise I would guess that they could be eliminated by refraining from
    using the term Quality alone." [Pirsig to Turner, November 2005]

    [Case]
    Is this an offical announcement that 'Quality' has been removed from the
    MoQ?

    -----Original Message-----
    From: owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk [mailto:owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk] @venus.co. [mailto:owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk]
    On Behalf Of Paul Turner
    Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 10:59 AM
    To: moq_discuss@moq.org
    Subject: MD Quality, DQ and SQ

    I notice that the relationship between the terms 'Quality', 'Dynamic
    Quality' and 'static quality' is back on the table.

    I suggest that the view that 'Quality' remains something above and beyond
    static and Dynamic Quality within the MOQ structure is incorrect. I think
    the confusion arises from the transition between the two books. In ZMM
    there is no reference to 'Dynamic Quality', being that 'static quality' is
    not referred to in any clear way. As I see it, at a certain point in LILA
    the single term 'Quality' is effectively replaced(*) with the two terms -
    'static quality' and 'Dynamic Quality'.

    I have asked Pirsig about all of this recently, he replied as follows:

    "When ZMM was written there was no division between Dynamic Quality and
    static quality and the term Quality then meant what is now meant by Dynamic
    Quality. Today I tend to think of Quality as covering both Dynamic and
    static quality. So far no problems have arisen with this confusion of terms
    but if they do arise I would guess that they could be eliminated by
    refraining from using the term Quality alone." [Pirsig to Turner, November
    2005]

    "The 'static quality' of LILA...seems to me to be an expansion of the
    'Quality' of ZMM" [Pirsig to Turner, August 2005]

    The expansion of Quality to include a static as well as a Dynamic component
    occurs in Chapter 9 of LILA so I would suggest that after this chapter the
    term 'Dynamic Quality' is used to refer to what was termed 'Quality' in ZMM
    and, conversely, Pirsig's use of 'Quality' alone can be read as 'Dynamic
    Quality' prior to the start of Chapter 9 but as a reference to both static
    and Dynamic Quality together subsequent to it.

    PRE-LILA(9) QUALITY = DYNAMIC QUALITY
    POST-LILA(9) QUALITY = DYNAMIC QUALITY + STATIC QUALITY

    Although I agree with the argument concerning the redundancy of having two
    undefined terms, given the clarification above I think that, post-LILA, it
    is a mistake to consider 'Quality' to be undefined and 'Dynamic Quality' to
    be defined as has been recently suggested. If anything it would be the
    other way around i.e. Quality, insofar as it 'includes' static quality, is
    partially defined and Dynamic Quality is the undefined component of Quality.

    However, whilst I think this convention can be used to harmonise the two
    books, I propose that in ongoing discussions the term 'Quality' alone should
    be dropped, as Pirsig suggests, to avoid problems resulting from a lack of
    clarity.

    (*) I can't think of any situation where the use of the term 'Quality'
    could not be more clearly replaced with either 'Dynamic Quality', 'static
    quality' or 'static and Dynamic Quality'.

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