From: skutvik@online.no
Date: Sun Nov 13 2005 - 07:51:23 GMT
Hi David M.
11 Nov. you wrote:
> Actually you can sense society take a look
> at any great building, and for a bit of intellect
> read a good book, this is the advantage you get
> when you have 4 levels of SQ to work/play with.
Right, your point underpins my assertion that the original way of
tucking the SOM under the MOQ doesn't work, except in the
"most platitudinous sense". I don't question the advantage of the
4 levels, I find the MOQ superb, it's just that its full potential is
squandered by this way of encasing the SOM.
> Still can't see why everything on the 4th level
> equals SOM unless you define intellect very narrowly.
Yes, that's the very point, the intellectual level is static and
infinitely more narrow than most people's notion of it ... a notion
that isn't even in accordance with "Oxford's Advanced" that
actually says that intellect is the S/O, but this I have repeated for
ages without making the slightest dent in people's pre-
conceptions.
> Lets say intellect is about using concepts.
Intellect is "out of" society and employs the foremost social
pattern language to promote its own value, there is nothing
controversial here.
> You can
> split these into those by intuition and those by postulation
> as per Anthony's thesis.
Everybody wants the intellectual level to be some mental ability,
Pirsig that of manipulating symbols, you that of using concepts
(the same thing BTW) but intellectual VALUE is that of seeing the
symbols what is symbolized, concepts what is conceptualized
distinction. An unknown reality for the "social" world.
> The latter have been dominated
> by an SO metaphysics, but as the MOQ and other examples
> show this is not a necessity. Also see my other post today
> in a new thread.
The point about "intuition/postulation" is so special that I must
dwell on it. You see "intuition" is one of the concepts I call "grand"
(related to Quality in a way that could have made them the
ground for some Q-like metaphysics) ) so this pair can be
compared to Quality while SOM ruled. Thus it is not all correct to
say that postulation is "dominated by SOM" it's rather that
postulation IS SOM.
If that is what you mean, disregard my spoon-feeding. ;-). Haven't
yet studied your other post. Will do.
Bo
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