From: Rebecca Temmer (ratemmer.lists@gmail.com)
Date: Mon Nov 14 2005 - 21:04:43 GMT
Hey Case,
[Case]
> What are you reading?
>
> Stanley and Dobson?
> Bart and Bultman?
> LaHaye?
> Funk?
Rebecca:
Right now I'm reading Bataille, Machiavelli and Frankl (but that's all for
class). Actually, you caught me. Most of the exploring I've been doing is
internet related - it's quicker and I don't really have the time to pick up
anything terribly substantial at the moment. I'll take note of your
suggestions though and in a month or so we'll see where they get me.
[Case]
> There are a lot of similarities between Christianity and Buddhism.
> For example:
> Christians say you should be born again.
> Buddhist cultivate the beginners mind.
> Both are attempts infuse dynamic quality.
>
> Buddhists say that to free yourself from fear, you must free yourself from
> desire.
> Christians say you will have nothing to fear if you put your trust in
> God's
> will.
> The MoQ says fear is scarily dynamic and you need something static to get
> you through the night.
Rebecca:
Agreed. There are a lot of similarities between every religion in different
contexts. Yesterday I was rereading Mircea Eliade - hierophanies and sacred
space... interesting stuff. Anyhow, I see connections everywhere but who
knows how strong they are. All I'm saying is that I need some more time to
think about this particular subject. I'm going to Mexico in a month and a
half and I'll have plenty of time to read and post then.
[Case]
> I just said I didn't see much correspondence in the two Trinities.
> I await word on whether Trinitarians of MoQ will hence forth be
> excommunicated.
>
Rebecca:
I saw Paul Turner's response to this post (the evils of cross posting :).
You said something above about the Christian Trinity being conceived of by
people and "As a result of one of the most twisted and bizarre compromises
of all time, today we have the dogma that Jesus was fully human and fully
divine at the same time." It might be twisted but that was the compromise
that they felt was the best - and so it has shaped the world. There were
very political implications to that compromise - who got to be the
"authority" on Jesus and God... Who got to tell the people what to do
essentially. Who had the power of excommunication (etc).
Can we ever really know if our conversations here will have the same kind of
implications in 400 years? No we can't, and it's presumptuous to think they
might but why would we be exploring these ideas if we don't hope they will
take hold. Perhaps that's why Pirsig "installed" such a fervent praise of DQ
in favour of SQ - maybe he saw how SQ always tries to drag down the freedom
that's inherent in the initial ideas of doctrines such Christianity - how to
give an idea, a system of beliefs enough leg room to be free, to continue to
evolve. Eventually the MOQ will get bogged down and somebody will have to
come up with something better - maybe it'll take 5000 years or maybe the
idea will fly like an ostrich. Who's to know?
[Case in another thread post to Paul Turner]
I think a Trinitarian formulation is incorrect as well. But I greatly prefer
a Trinity to a dualism, especially the kind of one legged dualism you
suggest. I maintain that the MoQ is monistic. I think the central monism is
undefined Quality and from it spring Yin-(SQ) and Yang-(DQ). I am dumb
founded by your assertion that Pirsig rejects this.
Rebecca:
Maybe my comparison between the Holy Trinity and Quality is wrong - perhaps
I don't understand either of them quite so well as I should but the above
description of Quality you gave has always been the same notion I had of the
Christian Trinity - God as the central monism is undefined and from it
spring God the Son and The Holy Spirit. Yet they are all part of the same
God. This 'mis'conception of the Trinity must spring from my early years.
Perhaps the reason I found the MOQ so compelling in the first place was this
familiar link that I thought I saw...
Three steps forward, two steps back...
Rebecca
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