From: David Buchanan (DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org)
Date: Mon Mar 10 2003 - 00:13:29 GMT
Matt S and all:
MS said:
Thanks for your interesting reply. I'm not
criticising Pirsig in a broad sense, only in that his
work can peraps be seen as incompatible with the
post-human ideas of thought. BUt you also raise some
crucial points about the value of nihilism in thought.
DMB says:
Post-human ideas of thought? I don't know what that means.
MS continued:
This is the biggest (and I might add, the easiest)
criticism of postmodern thought. But there are some
really interesting ideas being developed at the moment
about the positive effect of nihilism. Firstly, that
a state of nihilism is necessary, and perhaps
inevitable, at certain junctures in society's
development, such that defunct modes of thought can be
discarded as they are shown to be questionable.
Therefore new modes of thought are forged, nihilism is
abandonned, and a new, revised modernity emerges. I
would contend that the last 100 years or so have
pretty much resembled such a juncture. Pirsig may
resemble this model, or at least a symptom of the
model - after all, the blurb on the back of ZMM says
something like 'it'll change the way you think about
life'.
DMB says:
I think I see what you're saying. Nihilism creates an opening for new modes
of thought. Is that about right? I appreciate the notion, but it defies the
meaning of the word. NIHILISM: noun. 1.) The total rejection of established
laws and institutions. 2.)Anarchy, terrorism or other revolutionary
activity. 3.) Total and absolute destructiveness, esp. toward the world at
large and including oneself; as in the power-mad nihilism that markded
Hitler's last years. 4.)philos. A) An extreme form of skepticism; the denial
of all real existence or the possibility of of an objective basis of truth.
B) nothingness or nonexistence.
MS:
Secondly, nihilism may be conceived of as more
advanced state of human reason, where higher forms of
thought can take place, un-hindered by the weight of
metaphysics. This is a difficult idea, but the
emphasis seems to be on 'intersubjectivity', rather
than objectivity, and an empowerment of people to
speak of different things, in different 'languages'.
Although the most 'tricky' cenception of nihilism, it
is also the most exciting, as it heralds a new
enlightenment, such that thought has turned full
circle, and enters modernity again, only in a more
refined sense.
DMB says:
I'm certainly not opposed to an "advanced state of human reason" or the
"empowerment of people", but I'm not so sure that nihilism is the best word
to describe that.
MS:
I wouldn't say nihilism is anti-intellectual. Perhaps
it is often unhelpful, as it seems to point out what
is wrong, but never what is right, but is this a bad
thing per se? I've always seen postmodernism as an
exploration of the truth and of the true nature of
things. Yes this is perhaps a contradiction in terms,
but wouldn't you rather throw away the dead wood than
keep hold of it?
DMB says:
Getting rid of what is wrong or untrue is a good thing. And doing philosophy
is nearly impossible without SOME amount of skepticism. So yea, I'll buy the
notion that clearing dead wood is useful. But again, I think nihilism goes
too far. Its too strong a word. It seems to positively assert a belief that
there is nothing we can know. Your explanation is re-assuring to a certain
extent, but I'd still rather be merely skeptical than nihilistic.
Thanks for your time.
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archives:
Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Mon Mar 10 2003 - 00:14:34 GMT