From: Matt Kundert (pirsigaffliction@hotmail.com)
Date: Wed Nov 16 2005 - 21:02:23 GMT
Hey Scott,
Matt said:
I am _absolutely_ taking advantage of paradox. This is something Scott and
I disagree about, too. I say that in conversation, when you meet a
contradiction, a paradox, you make a distinction (I think it was Aquinas who
first said that). That dissolves the contradiction so you can continue the
conversation.
Scott said:
I think I would like to draw a distinction here, between contradiction and
paradox on the one hand, and contradictory identity (CI). I certainly don't
see CI as a thinking- or conversation-stopper, rather I see it as a useful
new way of thinking. It takes some getting used to, and perhaps one never
gets quite used to it, one of its advantages, as I see it (keeps one on
one's toes). But I basically find it useful in talking about consciousness,
value, mysticism, thinking, perception, and language, so much so that I find
talking about these subjects without it to be of little value.
Matt:
If I understand the basics of the logic of contradictory identity, then I
think I could agree with you on the distinction between LCI on the one hand
and encountered contradictions on the other. I actually went across this
area earlier in this thread, though I'm still not sure if I'm getting it
right.
Matt (from "Rhetoric," Aug. 25):
If I understand correctly, the whole idea of the tetra...humanahumana-thingy
(whatever it is), what Scott also calls the logic of contradictory identity,
is that it isn't proper to say that ultimate reality does exist...or doesn't
or...whatever the other two are (which I take to be Sam's point about
telling his parishioners that he's an atheist). I take Rorty's point about
ineffable things not existing to be that, once you eff it, you've made it
exist in some sense where its no longer ineffable (which is why, I take it,
in the mystical tradition, you have to keep repeating the tetra-mantra, to
keep reminding yourself what you are and are not doing...along with the
other two).
Matt:
If LCI is something analogous to a warning, then I'm still not sure why we
have to live with the paradox of, what you sometimes refer to your project
as, an "ironic metaphysics." Ironic in the Rortyan sense and metaphysical
in the traditional sense, its basically a more generalized version of the
common presupposition it has with the Metaphysics of Quality (defining the
undefined). What I don't get is why we'd still style ourselves ironic
metaphysicians if we recognize that we will never know if we've reached the
true essences that are out there (until we've reached, asymptotically, the
end of inquiry, which means when language stops changing because we all
speak Peircish). Why not stop calling what we are doing "the search for
essences"? Philosophy as an area of inquiry won't help if its subject
matter, which it has been since it stopped spewing out other disciplines, is
telling us when we've reached the essences. Even saying that we will
someday speak Peircish doesn't help with any of the inquiries.
_That_ inquiry, metaphysical inquiry after essences, hasn't been conclusive
about anything, which is why irony has been increasingly conspicuous as
people get bored. The irony isn't any more conclusive then the results of
the search for essences because it isn't so much reached by a conclusive
argument _for_ irony then it is reached by people being puzzled by the
succession of conclusive arguments _against_ particular attempts to limn the
true essence of reality, till those frustrated people finally go, "Well, why
don't I do something else." You can spread the irony around to other
disciplines' pretensions (like some scientists'), but otherwise you have to
look for something new to do. I'm not sure what's left to inquire into when
the ironic metaphysician has already condemned their own area of inquiry.
There are surely other things that philosophy is in the business of, other
things for philosophy to do. I'm just not sure why we have to keep on board
a self-image that was forged for a different activity.
Matt
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