From: ian glendinning (psybertron@gmail.com)
Date: Sun Nov 27 2005 - 14:13:12 GMT
Bo, specifically on the points you aimed at me ...
I asked "so do you have any conception of or any kind of word for
mental / intellectual considerations beyond SOM ?"
And you replied
[QUOTE]
Beyond SOM are Quality-based consideration (yet another term).
If you still ask what faculty is beyond all considerations, beyond
reason, beyond logic, what makes us see something as logical and
something else as illogical? Or what makes us choose an elegant
solution instead of a clumsy one, in short what make us strive for
betterness ... you will see that we end up with Quality. But I'm
afraid you uphold SOM's metaphysical outlook by seeing thoughts as
intellect's patterns ... and that the MOQ is another such pattern. Not
adapting MOQ's outlook which is that thoughts as different from the
physical is the 4th level's value. The highest and best value there
is, yet static ...not AS IT REALLY IS!.
[UNQUOTE]
My response
I just call those "quality considerations" MoQ-Intellect (as distinct
from SOM-Intellect) which is where I came in, That's just linguistic,
what matters is where these things fit in and relate to the MoQ
framework. But continuing your points ..
Like Paul says - Logic is just one specific form of intellectual
reasoning - much overrated as I've said many times. Elegance,
betterness are about quality - I'm totally on board with that, that's
why I'm here - they are / it is an essential addition to our
intellectual armoury.
Like all things in the world (objects or thoughts or subjects) I see
patterns of quality interactions. Thoughts (in the 4th layer) are
clearly different from the physical (in the 1st), but they are not of
a fundamentally different world there is no thought-stuff distinct
from physical-stuff, no neat duality. They are different emergent
patterns of reality, dynamic and static. Even the things you happily
call physical (Dr Johnson's rock presumably) are exactly such emergent
patterns of quality. MoQ provides that unifying framework.
My physics is 100 years more advanced than yours. But we can drop the
word physics (you brought it up). I'm OK with the word "reality". You
mentally equate physics with SOMism, quite unnecessarily.
Ian
I am openly a naturalist / physicalist
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