Re: MD Status of ideas and god in the MOQ?

From: Rebecca Temmer (ratemmer.lists@gmail.com)
Date: Wed Nov 30 2005 - 20:27:18 GMT

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    Hey David,

    In my opinion, pragmatism is the only response to God. God (higher beings
    etc) is a concept that is necessarily personal and different for each
    person. Even the most alike Christians will have difference conceptions of
    the God that they worship; different relationships with God if you will.
    That's fine. A preoccupation with ultimacy seems to be a part of the human
    condition, though. I think the Christian God is as real as the Cree spirits
    that Dusenberry writes about. Atheism seems to be a rather sad way of
    looking at the world... it's defeatist and reactionary.

    Theists say:
    "I can't prove the ultimate nature of reality, but I believe it's God (etc)"
    Pragmatists say:
    "I can't prove the ultimate nature of reality, it might be a higher power,
    it might not, I'll believe what is most useful for me to believe."
    Atheists say:
    "I can't prove the ultimate nature of reality, but I don't believe it's God
    (etc)"

    I've always been a fan of the middle ground... maybe it's the only Way :)

    Thoughts?
    Rebecca

    On 11/29/05, David M < davidint@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
    >
    > status of god?
    >
    > well, experience is very hard to make sense of,
    > we put together ideas to try and make sense of it,
    > the 'world' is such an idea to make sense of a certain set of experience
    > that can be explained by the idea 'world' but does not prove once and for
    > all that there is a world. There are even more ultimate ideas that try to
    > explain the ultimate set of experience, such is the idea of god or DQ &
    > SQ.
    > There is always a need for this ultimate idea. Our exposure to more
    > experience and new ideas are bound to make us re-think our ultimate
    > explanatory idea (god or whatever). Now, forme, this means that sure
    > I cannot accept the traditional notion of god, new experience and ideas
    > takeme elsewhere, but I have no desire to restrict my capacity to examine
    > the most ultimate of ideas (an atheist simply restircts themselves in
    > respect
    > to this possibility) in a way to look for a new god. Pirsig distances the
    > MOQ
    > from god, but I think that it is somewhat misleading to talk of DQ/SQ in
    > ultimate terms and not accept that this has someoverlap with what people
    > have previosuly thought about god/gods,divine,given,etc.
    >
    > DM
    >
    >
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: "ian glendinning" < psybertron@gmail.com>
    > To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 12:23 PM
    > Subject: Re: MD Quality, subjectivity and the 4th level
    >
    >
    > > Mike, you said to Mark
    > > "Surely [you] realised that atheism requires just as much of a leap of
    > > faith as theism does?"
    > >
    > > I've had that debate before. The way I see it that is kinda true, but
    > > I prefer to characterise the atheist's "leap of faith" as a
    > > "suspension of disbelief". An ongoing belief in "nature", even the
    > > unexplained bits, until such time as proven / disproven, without
    > > resorting to the "supernatural".
    > >
    > > Ian
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
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    > >
    >
    >
    >
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