From: Wim Nusselder (wim.nusselder@antenna.nl)
Date: Tue Mar 11 2003 - 21:41:01 GMT
Dear Sam,
You wrote 11 Mar 2003 19:29:12 -0000 that Kingsley's 'book is a project
aimed at showing the profound continuities between Pythagorean (Orphic)
magic, myths and ritual, as best represented in the figure of the
pre-Socratic philosopher Empedocles, and Plato's perspective, especially as
set out in the Phaedo.'
That supports my idea that the birth of the intellectual level should not be
situated there and then. The gradual development from logos out of mythos is
simply a development within the intellectual level. The mythos should not be
identified with social patterns of values (even if Pirsig seems to do so)
and the logos not with (all) intellectual patterns of values. They are just
lower quality respectively higher quality intellectual patterns of value.
There is another reason why the development of logos out of mythos should
not be equated with a development of the intellectual level out of the
social level:
In the MoQ intellectual patterns of value cannot 'grow on top of' biological
patterns of value. Without social patterns of value in between, mind cannot
grow from (even animate) matter. Although historically logos was derived
from mythos, we can now educate our children to think logically without
having to teach them to think mythically. So myths etc. (or mythical
thinking) cannot be the social level which the MoQ needs.
We can only teach our children to think in the way our society needs after
first making them behave however. Until they reach a certain age (around 7
years old?) it is no use telling children to do something because of this or
that reason. They will do what you tell them if you tell them emphatically
enough, whatever the reasons you give, and if you behave according to what
you say. Properly motivating what they do is something they only learn
gradually in the course of say another 7 years. Only then they can be said
to really participate in intellectual patterns of value, by consciously
acting according to ideas and being susceptible to persuasion (instead of
the 'blackmailing' or at least bargaining which you need at an earlier age
to make them do something which they really don't want). This
behaving-ourselves-because-of-social-pressures (as distinguished from
acting-for-conscious-reasons) is the social level the MoQ needs.
With friendly greetings,
Wim
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