From: Elizaphanian (elizaphanian@tiscali.co.uk)
Date: Wed Mar 26 2003 - 16:40:40 GMT
Hi David,
Sam quoted Wittgenstein (from his 'Remarks on Frazer's Golden Bough')
> "The same savage, who stabs the picture of his enemy apparently in order
to
> kill him, really builds his hut out of wood and carves his arrow skilfully
> and not in effigy."
>
> DMB says:
> Not in effigy. Right on. I think this is consistent with Pirsig's
> distinction between ACTUALLY and SYMBOLICALLY. To the savage, who wasn't
> really all that savage, stabbing a picture ACTUALLY killed his enemy or
> prey.
That is precisely the interpretation that Wittgenstein wished to demonstrate
as misguided.
> "I believe that the characteristic feature of primitive man is that he
does
> not act from opinions (contrary to Frazer)."
>
> DMB says:
> Neither true nor false, not a view or opinion at all. Isn't that what I've
> been saying? Rituals and myths are valid only as rituals and myths. As
> facts, they are impossible non-sense. They are NOT intellectual and they
> aren't supposed to be. Expecting them to and wanting them to make
> intellectual sense IS the death of God.
You're being monolithic again. W's remark was specifically about 'primitive'
approaches. That doesn't mean that ALL ritual is primitive.
> "I should like to say: nothing shows our kinship to those savages better
> than the fact that Frazer has on hand a word as familiar to himself and to
> us as 'ghost' or 'shade' in order to describe the views of these people...
> An entire mythology is stored within our language."
>
> DMB says:
> An entire mythology is stored in the language. Yes, not only does this
> support the idea that common sense language represents our most
fundamental
> tradition and is therefore a social level thing, but also helps to explain
> what Pirsig means when he says all intellect is derived from that level.
In
> fact, as Pirsig paints it, we are far more than just the kin to these
> myth-minded savages. We ARE them. We can't escape this dimension or level
of
> our beings anymore than we can escape our bodies.
Precisely. So why draw a hard and fast distinction between mythology and
intellect?
Sam
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