From: Elizaphanian (elizaphanian@tiscali.co.uk)
Date: Mon Mar 31 2003 - 10:42:17 BST
Hi Scott,
I asked:
> > Why can't all matter be incipiently conscious, which is only manifested
> when
> > it attains a certain order of complexity? I still don't understand why
you
> > reject that. (I'm probably being particularly dense at the moment)
Scott said:
> It could be, but I see assuming that as a weak response to the argument.
It
> would still be necessary that space and time be transcended for the
> incipient consciousness of elementary particles to merge into our
perception
> of big and complex things, so I see assuming that electrons or whatever
have
> some sort of ur-conscioousness as not getting us very far.
The angle that I am coming at this from is a denial of 'materialism' (or SOM
even), by which I mean the idea that matter and mind are radically different
things. If you deny that fundamental axiom (which I think has to follow for
a Christian, BTW, given the claim of Incarnation; it's also, of course,
ruled out in the MoQ) then it's not an 'assumption' that electrons have
ur-consciousness, it's a basic perspective. (Same thing, different
interpretation). I just smell a very faint whiff of dualism in your
argument, which I'm uncomfortable with.
> My preferred response is to assume that matter, along with space and time,
> is a manifestation of full-blown, not incipient, consciousness. To put it
> another way, the universe of space, time, mass, and observers of same, is
> one way that consciousness creates reality. It should be noted that this
> does not make matter unreal. What is illusory is its unconscious
appearance
> to us stuck in our current stage of human evolution.
I do have much sympathy with where you're going with this. I'm just
quibbling with details.
Sam
"A good objection helps one forward, a shallow objection, even if it is
valid, is wearisome." Wittgenstein
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archives:
Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Mon Mar 31 2003 - 11:40:51 BST