Re: MD mental and neural states

From: Wim Nusselder (wim.nusselder@antenna.nl)
Date: Mon Apr 21 2003 - 21:23:20 BST

  • Next message: Scott R: "Re: MD mental and neural states"

    Dear Sam and Scott,

    Sam wrote 21 Apr 2003 12:01:34 +0100 that he didn't agree with Scott that
    consciousness is full-blown and not something that comes in degrees. He
    asked Scott:
    'If so, how do you understand the development of consciousness in human
    development, ie from embryo through childhood to adulthood? Aren't there
    degrees of consciousness there?'

    Sam wrote 29 Oct 2002 07:56:14 -0000 that he had a good deal of agreement
    with my statements that it is better to speak of 'adding people/societies to
    4th level patterns of value' than of 'adding 4th level values to
    people/societies' and 'that it is not people or societies that "become" 4th
    level patterns of values (that wrongly reifies patterns of values), but
    people or societies that start experiencing 4th level patterns of values
    (their experience bringing them into being)'. He added then:
    'I wonder how far it would be fair to describe someone being added to
    fourth level patterns of values as being
    "born again"'.

    If both of you (still) agree with what I wrote and with Pirsig's
    identification of consciousness and intellectual patterns of value in
    'Lila's Child', would you agree
    1) that the intellectual level is something that exists once intellectual
    patterns of value are experienced by some humans,
    2) that intellectual static quality, i.e. the value of the stability and
    versatility of intellectual patterns of value, doesn't come in degrees
    during the evolution of the MoQ levels, but once and for all at the moment
    that the intellectual level was first experienced by humans,
    3) that individual human development can best be understood as a succession
    of 'births' and periods of being brought up to full participation into
    successively the biological, the social and the intellectual level and ...
    4) that 'intellectual patterns of value' and 'the intellectual level' can be
    substituted by 'consciousness'?

    With friendly greetings,

    Wim

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