From: Paul Turner (pauljturner@yahoo.co.uk)
Date: Tue Apr 29 2003 - 18:23:44 BST
Hi Platt and others
I didn't want to go into a circular discussion but it
turns out there is some interest and diverse opinion
around the matter!
> "Lila is a living being composed of static patterns
> of value with ability to
> respond to DQ."
So what defines a human being from other collections
of static patterns of Quality is the ability to
respond to Dynamic Quality
I can't help but see this definition as a tautology:
Q: What static patterns of Quality perceive and
respond to Dynamic Quality?
A: Human beings
Q: What is a human being
A: Static patterns of Quality that perceive and
respond to Dynamic Quality
> Asking "what is it that perceives . . ." suggests
> you're looking for a
> physical "mechanism" (like science does) to explain
> the phenomenon of
> responding to DQ
No, I'm not. What I'm looking for is clarity around,
what is to me, the thing that is central to the whole
metaphysics.
Pirsig has made a primary division of reality of
static-Dynamic. To me, the relationship between the
two aspects of reality could be the strongest or the
weakest part of the whole metaphysics. Before anyone
else says it, I'm not assuming a relationship has to
be between two literally seperate 'objects', but where
there is a metaphysical distinction there has to be a
relationship e.g. Waves have a relationship to the
ocean.
Subject-object metaphysics carved up the world in a
way that cut out so much clarity from our
understanding of actual experience by never resolving
the relationship between the two aspects. In ZMM,
Pirsig resolves the relationship by correctly denying
that the division exists outside of the metaphysics,
but now he has made a metaphysical division of his
own. I'm just looking at it closely.
Now, Pirsig makes statements about the relationship
such as 'Static quality emerges in the wake of Dynamic
Quality' and 'Unless they [static patterns] are
altered by Dynamic Quality..' which implies that DQ
simply creates and alters SQ.
Okay, that's a clear relationship, but then he throws
in the 'static patterns can't perceive or respond to
Dynamic Quality by themselves' statement. So it
follows that the relationship is limited to living
beings?
Interesting.
Now it turns out it's not living beings, it's now only
human beings? And it's down to our intellectual
capability at that?
If it's now an intellectual thing, what about Lila?
:'..intellectually she's nowhere, but Dynamically...Ah
that's the one to watch.'
Intellectually nowhere but 'Dynamic'?
I haven't come to any fixed conclusions yet, I don't
feel clear enough to do that. Okay, perhaps I haven't
spent the same amount of time working these things
through yet as others on the forum, but that's one of
the reasons I'm here.
> To say "living beings are no different from
> inanimate things" is
> misleading to say the least.
To you perhaps, and at first glance maybe, but I've
given Wim's response a lot of thought and there is
something in what he is saying. If you follow the
implications of the MoQ all the way through.. One for
another post though.
> I agree with Bo that at this point in evolution,
> only humans can respond to DQ.
The 'at this point in evolution' does add clarity to
Pirsig's statement. However, I recall watching a
documentary about new signs of life evolving in the
depths of the ocean that appeared to be surviving by
breathing sulphuric gases coming from the earth's core
as that was all that was available to 'breathe'.
I'm not big on biology, but something about humans
being the only form of life that can evolve now?
cheers
Paul
'The best way of escape from deep-rooted error has
often proved to be, to pursue it to its logical
conclusion, that is to go on taking it seriously and
see what follows.' Owen Barfield
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